Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin • Hacker News Board

Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#61

Post by chiefalchemist » Mon, Jun 28, 2021, 6:00 PM UTC

chiefalchemist wrote: post #51

skohan wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the actual situation there? I have read that cheap insulin for example is available at WallMart, but for some reason the price of insulin seems to be a huge issue.

The situation is that Type 2 Diabetes has raised the demand for insulin. More demand raises prices. The thing we can't talk about without risking cancellation is that nearly all Type 2 Diabetes is preventable. In other words, the choices of the many have a significant negative impact on those (i.e., Type 1'ers) who don't really have a choice.

Down voted (faux cancelled) as expected. For stating fact and truth? God bless you.

Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#62

Post by lotsofpulp » Mon, Jun 28, 2021, 6:00 PM UTC

DerpyBaby123 wrote: post #52

gruez wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like everything is working as intended? A corporation invests money to develop a better product, and the government gives them a 20 year monopoly on it so they charge a premium and recoup their investment. As a patient if you want to pay the premium for it, you can get the better product, otherwise you can still stick with whatever walmart's selling. It's worse, but it's not any worse than what you'd had if the…

That's not what is happening. It has nothing to do with a patent monopoly or recouping any investment: FTA: >In 1996, a vial of Humalog produced by Eli Lilly cost $21. Today, it's priced at $324 despite the cost of production remaining steady. >Rising costs are nothing new. Insulin prices tripled from 2002 to 2013, and doubled between 2012 and 2016. To put this into perspective, in 1996 a vial of Humalog produced by…

If it was developed in 1996, the patent protection would have expired by now. If the cost of production was "steady", then the question is why is a competitor not jumping in to make and sell something that would earn them a huge profit margin?

Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#63

Post by mgarfias » Mon, Jun 28, 2021, 6:00 PM UTC

chiefalchemist wrote: post #51

skohan wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the actual situation there? I have read that cheap insulin for example is available at WallMart, but for some reason the price of insulin seems to be a huge issue.

The situation is that Type 2 Diabetes has raised the demand for insulin. More demand raises prices. The thing we can't talk about without risking cancellation is that nearly all Type 2 Diabetes is preventable. In other words, the choices of the many have a significant negative impact on those (i.e., Type 1'ers) who don't really have a choice.

Our food system is sure rigged to make us fat. But then, in my case, what was it that triggered the t2d? Was it the family genetics (both parents are t2d in their old age), the over abundance of sugar in the std American diet, the stress caused by abusive relationships (parents suck, plus ex wife made my life a living hell), or the adrenal tumor?

I’ll never know and I’m stuck with it.

Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#64

Post by margalabargala » Mon, Jun 28, 2021, 6:01 PM UTC

gentleman11 wrote: post #36

f6v wrote: post #17

As someone who had to create transgenic E.coli in a lab, I admire the effort. It’s hard to get it right, especially when trying to make bacteria produce stuff for you. However, it feels like a huge step backward. Imagine you couldn’t afford to buy a piece of bread. Instead, you need to grow your own grains and build a windmill first. Sounds ridiculous in 2021.

My wife bakes bread almost every day and grows her own yeast. She loves it and the bread is fantastic. What is so ridiculous?

Growing enough viable yeast to bake 10 loaves of bread is orders of magnitude simpler than growing, harvesting, threshing, and milling enough grain to bake 10 loaves of bread.

Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#65

Post by nceqs3 » Mon, Jun 28, 2021, 6:01 PM UTC

DerpyBaby123 wrote: post #52

gruez wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like everything is working as intended? A corporation invests money to develop a better product, and the government gives them a 20 year monopoly on it so they charge a premium and recoup their investment. As a patient if you want to pay the premium for it, you can get the better product, otherwise you can still stick with whatever walmart's selling. It's worse, but it's not any worse than what you'd had if the…

That's not what is happening. It has nothing to do with a patent monopoly or recouping any investment: FTA: >In 1996, a vial of Humalog produced by Eli Lilly cost $21. Today, it's priced at $324 despite the cost of production remaining steady. >Rising costs are nothing new. Insulin prices tripled from 2002 to 2013, and doubled between 2012 and 2016. To put this into perspective, in 1996 a vial of Humalog produced by…

This is an incredibly stupid comment. Net price in Humalog has decreased since 2014 [0]. The PBMs jack up the list price so they can get their fat rebates.

[0] = https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/25/eli-lilly-discloses-pricing-....

Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#66

Post by burkaman » Mon, Jun 28, 2021, 6:01 PM UTC

gruez wrote: post #26

burkaman wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not branding, the newer insulin is significantly different and better for almost every patient. https://diabetesstrong.com/walmart-insulin/ It's likely not what your doctor prescribed, it doesn't last as long, it requires you (or your young children) to eat on a very specific schedule, it can't be used with an insulin pen or insulin pump, it's just all around a worse and less effective treatment.

Seems like everything is working as intended? A corporation invests money to develop a better product, and the government gives them a 20 year monopoly on it so they charge a premium and recoup their investment. As a patient if you want to pay the premium for it, you can get the better product, otherwise you can still stick with whatever walmart's selling. It's worse, but it's not any worse than what you'd had if the…

Yes it is working as intended, the argument is that those intentions are inhumane. Can you think of any medical treatments that were developed without the promise of 20 years of limitless profits? I can.

Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#67

Post by lotyrin » Mon, Jun 28, 2021, 6:02 PM UTC

gentleman11 wrote: post #56

ChefboyOG wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing ridiculous about the fact that your wife enjoys baking bread. There's a lot that's ridiculous about bread being so expensive that recreating the entire supply chain in your backyard is the only economically viable option for obtaining it. The metaphor pretty clearly was not about critiquing baking as a hobby.

It’s clearly about mocking decentralized home made solutions to problems, and of the people who opt for that approach. It’s an insult to every Amish person on earth and to home mechanics who shy away from garages. It’s also, by far, the most downvoted thing I’ve ever posted so thanks for using your other accounts to hit me for my acidic and savagely inappropriate comment

I'm not sure why you are projecting that, but it's not there.

Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#68

Post by lotsofpulp » Mon, Jun 28, 2021, 6:02 PM UTC

nceqs3 wrote: post #58

sithlord wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is so incredibly wrong - and trying to claim something you know obviously nothing about is hilarious. The different between NPH (regular insulin) (maybe R too, not sure??) sold by walmart and Fast Acting insulins (Novolog, Humalog, Apidra) is massive. Fast acting insulins start working at about in about 30 minutes and "peak" at like 2 hours, and may slowly have some effects for another 1-2 hours. NPH on the othe…

The net price on Humalog has gone down since 2014. The PBMs are the ones who distort list prices.

The PBMs are mostly owned and operated by the managed care organizations (insurance companies). The insurance companies have profit margins of less than 5%.

Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#69

Post by mgarfias » Mon, Jun 28, 2021, 6:02 PM UTC

badRNG wrote: post #19

adamrezich wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Call your congresscritter. unfortunately not likely to do anything as long as the big pharma lobby remains as powerful as it is

What else is one to do?

I’d vote for swinging politicians from lamp posts, but were not allowed to do that.

Re: Biohackers take aim at big pharma’s stranglehold on insulin

#70

Post by SketchySeaBeast » Mon, Jun 28, 2021, 6:04 PM UTC

gentleman11 wrote: post #56

ChefboyOG wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing ridiculous about the fact that your wife enjoys baking bread. There's a lot that's ridiculous about bread being so expensive that recreating the entire supply chain in your backyard is the only economically viable option for obtaining it. The metaphor pretty clearly was not about critiquing baking as a hobby.

It’s clearly about mocking decentralized home made solutions to problems, and of the people who opt for that approach. It’s an insult to every Amish person on earth and to home mechanics who shy away from garages. It’s also, by far, the most downvoted thing I’ve ever posted so thanks for using your other accounts to hit me for my acidic and savagely inappropriate comment

Their point was why are people being FORCED to produce a diabetes bio-hack instead of getting insulin. Neither your wife, Amish people, nor home mechanics are forced to make their own bread instead of buying it - they are all choosing to even though bread is cheap and easily available.