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Loneliness a 'bigger health risk than smoking or obesity'

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Loneliness a 'bigger health risk than smoking or obesity'

#81

Post by CaptArmchair »

FeistySkink wrote: post #2

I lost all of my social network during 2020. Being almost 40 and with the current situation still in progress, I don't even know where to start. I have no social contact outside of remote work and some sport activities.

Building a social network / support network is non-trivial even in the best of times.

It's one of the more challenging parts of life anyways as YMMV. Some people have loads of contacts and friends, others have enough with only a handful of close ties. There's no catch-all that works for everyone. And I think it's important to acknowledge that everyone has different individual needs.

Building a sturdy social network with a variety of contacts isn't something you do overnight. Rome wasn't build in a single day either. This takes time. And yet, you might surprise yourself one year from now. A lot can happen in 365 days if you decide to put your shoulders under this.

> I don't even know where to start

Group activities are a great way to meet people.

Group travel, classes / workshops, local social / cultural communities, outreach activities,... For instance, I enrolled into cooking classes for a few years, which was a great way to meet people and have great food. Many non-profit organizations do stuff like guided walks and tours, visits to venues, organise workshops and so on.

Volunteering works too. Doesn't have to be charity. Working with youths is a pretty great way to get involved in a local community. Even in your late 30s.

What worked for me in the past was just walking into a community center and striking up a conversation with people who are working there: What are they about? What do they offer? Are they doing cool stuff? If you show interest, they will pick up on that.

One challenge is to get out of your comfort zone. Try out things you haven't tried before. Like, try following a first aid, dance or yoga class if you haven't. Don't get stuck in an area related to work or older hobbies you have.

Be mindful that not all things you explore will work out for you. You might feel that some stuff just isn't for you, or that the group dynamics aren't a match. That's totally valid. It's fine to drop an activity for something else if you feel disengaged.

As for making friends: those are actually a side effect of the above.

One doesn't make friends out of the blue. You put yourself out there first, trying and exploring the world, following your own interests. And as you do so, you will hit upon people who might become friends. And in due time, some of them might even become close friends.

Personally, I'm in a similar boat as you. Intend to put myself out there over the next few months, try some new things I have on my mind, and spend less time in front of digital devices as I did in 2020.

Re: Loneliness a 'bigger health risk than smoking or obesity'

#82

Post by pmoriarty »

the-dude wrote: post #51
mkr-hn wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's definitely an element of the last several years revealing how many people are just awful human beings. I'm wary of spending time getting to know someone only to find out they think certain people (like me) don't deserve equal rights, or something like that. I know on some level people were always like that. Bad ideas are pervasive and always have been. But there's more echo chambers reinforcing bad ideas now.…

If you see and describe 'the other side' in terms of deplorables as you do, you are as much a part of the polarisation problem as anyone else. Believing about half of your fellow countrymen are 'awful human beings' is bonkers.

Clinton was talking about half of Trump supporters. Even taking that statement literally, that doesn't equate to anywhere near half the country.

It would only be a quarter of the country if every person in the country voted and if half went to Clinton and half to Trump.

But we know that more people voted for Clinton, so just because of that the Trump-supporting half would be even less than that... and yet less than that because a lot of people don't vote.

Also, let's remember that Clinton said this during the campaign, when everyone (including Clinton) thought that Clinton had way more support than Trump, so she was expecting that Trump supporters were much fewer in number than they actually were. So that makes the total numbers she was (figuratively, not literally) talking about fewer still.

I grant your larger point about polarization, however. It's hard to see who in the US political arena is not contributing to ever greater polarization. Somehow we need to deescalate before more serious violence occurs.

Re: Loneliness a 'bigger health risk than smoking or obesity'

#83

Post by wonderwonder »

flamble wrote: post #60
_notathrowaway wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel bad about you man, and I wish people in this website could recognize your experience rather than simply downvote it because it is not aligned with their political views.

What I found so frustrating about the comment was how close it was to some sort of insight, while maddeningly not connecting the dots. He has some vague sense that his unhappiness is related to "workaholism", but is so fixated on gender politics that he twists it to revolve around that. He imagines that women have a "choice of careers, choice of being a mother while the husband provides", apparently oblivious to the…

I don't know OP, but a lot of people just spent a long time all alone with no outside communication except the internet. Lots of them discovered that as soon as in person work was removed that they really had no real friends. That can be quite a terrible discovery finding out you are really all alone. Isolation does strange things to the mind. That coupled with whatever echo chambers people happened to wonder into online probably had a dramatic effect on hundreds of thousands of people coming out of this thing. May take years for some to recover and many will probably never return to the same person they were.

Re: Loneliness a 'bigger health risk than smoking or obesity'

#84

Post by pmoriarty »

mxmilkiib wrote: post #41

Our built/lived environment is so bad and corrupting after tens (if not hundreds) of years of anti-humanisc approaches to building (including modernism and postmodernism). No incentives for a wider range of housing possibility, like community and social understanding encouraging cohousing or just shared kitchen/reading facilities (apart from very lately apparently purely commercial driven development I've heard about…

Having architecture which encouraged communal living would help, but much more needs to be done.

Even when people are in common areas way too many have their noses buried in their cell phones or laptops. City dwellers are often incredibly distrustful of strangers. They complain of being lonely but few make much of an effort to meet new people or deepen existing relationships. Architecture alone is not going to solve this.

Re: Loneliness a 'bigger health risk than smoking or obesity'

#85

Post by pmoriarty »

_notathrowaway wrote: post #44
laurent92 wrote: post #35

Since lockdowns, I hate everybody. I just broke up with the idea that we are a society. No, we’re just insane people who are eating at other people’s sanity, using lockdowns as a means to dismantle our fellow citizen. How to become homeless when you start millionaire and CEO of a small/moderate company? Well this is the first and main step, because on any major problem, you are alone and no-one is going to testify in…

I feel bad about you man, and I wish people in this website could recognize your experience rather than simply downvote it because it is not aligned with their political views.

"simply downvote it because it is not aligned with their political views"

The parent poster is literally seething with hatred.

If that doesn't deserve a downvote on HN, regardless of your political views, I don't know what does.

We've also seen many times that hatred against women in online forums has led to acts of violence against women in real life.

That also deserves to be called out and condemned, regardless of one's politics.

Re: Loneliness a 'bigger health risk than smoking or obesity'

#86

Post by tstrimple »

wruza wrote: post #62
tstrimple wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No reason to feel bad. Reactionaries get lots of support on this site. See! Their rant about how all their problems are the fault of feminists and liberals is no longer grey.

You can only get -4, so it depends on how much upvotes in a row you get (until you’re flagged). That said, “it’s fault of feminists and liberals” is not what he meant, afaiu. He is complaining about the lack of attention to all “boring” problems like men suicide only because there are some fast-fashion peak problems which are supported by those who have less to do in their life. Again, afaiu. While my views are diffe…

It's funny how these sort of posts only seem to bring up male suicide when talking about feminism. It's almost like they don't actually care about male suicide as a problem just as a handy cudgel to be used against feminism. Yet when the conversation turns to things which actually have a major impact on suicide among men like toxic masculinity, they often deny such things even exist or is really just an attack against men. This is clear if you just take a look at a few more posts from the above poster. The only time they ever bring up issues with men is to contrast them with "how easy" women have it. It's got gems like this:

> "- Cult of female employment as their main role in society, which, in positions of power, happens to soften the stance towards criminals and deconstruct structures (hierarchies, things that worked to develop our nations, justice system). I don’t know the ratio for Cali but in France, 76 to 81% graduates of ENM (main school for judges) are female since 1977, and we basically free the criminals because they have compassion for them."

> "So I never demanded anything from my father up to the point I needed him. At 35 years old I told him modern women were unmanageable and my life was turning sour, and I needed help, I needed people to understand that men are being mistreated by the system, but I said it with ample documentation (you could watch the excellent movie The Red Pill, which depicts pretty much the complexity of our position), and that the only answer of society towards us is “Incel”. By the time I asked my father, I had already created some networks through politicians, but on the topic that interests me, all still had the same dismissive position, because promoting men doesn’t work politically. I’m saying that so you don’t say that I hadn’t walked my walk."

> "There aren’t many ways besides violence to be heard by people who refuse to hear us. I’ve already tried words! And more importantly for me: I’ve already tried taking positive action."

Re: Loneliness a 'bigger health risk than smoking or obesity'

#87

Post by mxmilkiib »

pmoriarty wrote: post #84
mxmilkiib wrote: post #41

Our built/lived environment is so bad and corrupting after tens (if not hundreds) of years of anti-humanisc approaches to building (including modernism and postmodernism). No incentives for a wider range of housing possibility, like community and social understanding encouraging cohousing or just shared kitchen/reading facilities (apart from very lately apparently purely commercial driven development I've heard about…

Having architecture which encouraged communal living would help, but much more needs to be done. Even when people are in common areas way too many have their noses buried in their cell phones or laptops. City dwellers are often incredibly distrustful of strangers. They complain of being lonely but few make much of an effort to meet new people or deepen existing relationships. Architecture alone is not going to solve…

Well, naturally, yes, it's just one part of the picture, and I didn't think I was expressing that it wasn't, so I don't think it's really fair to assume that I was only thinking of this as the one solution and write a reply based on that.

New more social architecture is literally one of the solutions available for providing opportunity for people to meet new people.

And oof, a downvote to 0 on my original fair-enough comment.

Re: Loneliness a 'bigger health risk than smoking or obesity'

#88

Post by mkr-hn »

tut-urut-utut wrote: post #37
perfunctory wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"State organized" social security IS a social network / safety net. Though it might not feel like one. I may be misreading this but your wording - "State organized" social security - sounds as if it's some kind of alien institution imposed on us by martians. I see it more like a system created by all of us through a social democratic process.

By "state organized" I wanted to emphasize that it's organized by the faceless institution. Lead by legislation and bureaucracy. As opposed to actual neighbours, co-workers, family and fellow union members with whom one has to collaborate (socially interact) to help to get help.

Social security was created because people's neighbors, friends, co-workers, unions, and families--if they had any of that--weren't helping.

Re: Loneliness a 'bigger health risk than smoking or obesity'

#89

Post by akudha »

bjornsing wrote: post #55
mkr-hn wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's definitely an element of the last several years revealing how many people are just awful human beings. I'm wary of spending time getting to know someone only to find out they think certain people (like me) don't deserve equal rights, or something like that. I know on some level people were always like that. Bad ideas are pervasive and always have been. But there's more echo chambers reinforcing bad ideas now.…

This rings very true to me. The combination of Twitter and pandemic has been very revealing to me. I used to think most people agreed on fundamental human values, and that political disagreement was about details like level of taxation, size of government, some moral judgements like abortion, that kind of stuff. Now I have the impression that we live in entirely different worlds / value systems, and that the correlat…

I had a Swiss colleague (he grew up in France/Switzerland, settled in US in his 30s) who firmly believed that being poor is a choice. His argument is that he worked hard for what he has (which he did) but he conveniently ignored that fact that he was born in a wealthy country and was given all the opportunities. No matter how much I explained to him, giving examples (like a kid born in poor, drug ridden neighborhood and raised by single mother with father in prison etc), he simply refused to acknowledge his geographic birth lottery. He simply wasn't able to see beyond his bubble.

Which made me think - do I understand, can I understand the issues faced by people who I have minimal/no contact, experience with? LGBTQ, physically challenged, mentally challenged, deeply religious etc? I don't know. I am terrified that I might say something stupid/offensive if I meet a transgender person, for example. Not because I am an arsehole, but because I simply do not comprehend what they are going through.

These echo chambers are only going to get worse and worse. I wish we all talked less and listened more

Re: Loneliness a 'bigger health risk than smoking or obesity'

#90

Post by voisin »

laurent92 wrote: post #35

Since lockdowns, I hate everybody. I just broke up with the idea that we are a society. No, we’re just insane people who are eating at other people’s sanity, using lockdowns as a means to dismantle our fellow citizen. How to become homeless when you start millionaire and CEO of a small/moderate company? Well this is the first and main step, because on any major problem, you are alone and no-one is going to testify in…

Dude you need to chill out. Stop blaming external factors for how you feel and take ownership of your internal monologue and feelings. You can change how you think.
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