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Why Computing Students Should Contribute to Open Source Software Projects

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Re: Why Computing Students Should Contribute to Open Source Software Projects

#111

Post by jerf »

pjc50 wrote: post #32
oytis wrote: post #8

> in the 21st century programming proficiency on its own is neither representative of the skills that the marketplace requires from computing graduates, nor does it offer the strong vocational qualifications it once did. Universities are not vocational education facilities though. Time a student has in university is better spent on getting deeper understanding of things that are hard to pick up in the workplace, and…

> Universities are not vocational education facilities though I see this argument a lot; universities would like to not be vocational education, but unavoidably they are. Certainly for all the older class of professional job: engineer, actuary, lawyer, doctor. For those you absolutely have to go to university to even begin your vocational training. Programming is different in that the degree is less of a hard require…

"A formal apprenticeship model would be great for programming, but there's a lot of obstacles to that."

Is there? The standard for the locality I live in, around the University of Michigan, is that students seem to be trying to pick up internships every summer now, including their first summer after being a freshman. It also not uncommon to see people who graduated with several internships on their resume. When I graduated ~2000 the general standard was one in your last summer.

Re: Why Computing Students Should Contribute to Open Source Software Projects

#112

Post by watwut »

glangdale wrote: post #63
oytis wrote: post #8

> in the 21st century programming proficiency on its own is neither representative of the skills that the marketplace requires from computing graduates, nor does it offer the strong vocational qualifications it once did. Universities are not vocational education facilities though. Time a student has in university is better spent on getting deeper understanding of things that are hard to pick up in the workplace, and…

I agree. Further, to the extent that students need to learn "Jira-fu, unit testing, peer reviewing, etc." they can learn this in a controlled environment run by the university. The problem with trying to have all students (not "some exceptional students", but all students) going out and engaging with the real world of open source is that the degree of difficulty in navigating different open source projects is enormou…

And also, open source maintainers are not free teachers. If university expects them to teach students, university first should ask open source maintainers whether they are ok with it.

Otherwise it creates absurd situation in which highly expensive institution is demanding that part of teaching is done by third parties for free.

Re: Why Computing Students Should Contribute to Open Source Software Projects

#113

Post by jerf »

oytis wrote: post #8

> in the 21st century programming proficiency on its own is neither representative of the skills that the marketplace requires from computing graduates, nor does it offer the strong vocational qualifications it once did. Universities are not vocational education facilities though. Time a student has in university is better spent on getting deeper understanding of things that are hard to pick up in the workplace, and…

"Universities are not vocational education facilities though."

Their prices say they are. There is no way they could be as expensive as they are, except that they are capturing a lot of the value of the vocational education they are expected to provide. Their prices speak louder than high-falutin' principles.

I'll permit University's their "we're not vocational training facilities" argument when their prices come back down to something like a 1980s level and reflect their expectation that they are not doing vocational training.

Re: Why Computing Students Should Contribute to Open Source Software Projects

#114

Post by jillesvangurp »

Not the worst idea for students to learn to communicate in the open, which is a hard requirement for OSS contributions. Also the more proactive students would in any case be doing this. And making things a bit more realistic motivates people as well.

For people worried about an influx of low quality PRs on their projects, you have the right to reject bad PRs and you can also help out newbies with nice labels as "good first issue" in Github on issues that they could do. I'm sure if people show up willing to put in some time, there will be lots of OSS projects that can benefit from this.

Re: Why Computing Students Should Contribute to Open Source Software Projects

#115

Post by MeinBlutIstBlau »

How do you recommend a student contribute to an open source project when many people don't even accept pull requests on their basic github repos? I had a teacher that tried this and it backfired immensely. Basically every student wasn't able to get one so my instructor had to change it last minute and just make us do a coding project in a different language.

Open source is not for new coders. Flat out. They are definitely great learning tools for students, but not things they should be touching yet. Unless they can demonstrate they know what they're doing.

Re: Why Computing Students Should Contribute to Open Source Software Projects

#116

Post by albuquerque »

pjmlp wrote: post #75
em-bee wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

france has a lot of engineering schools, which are not universities. autoconf is one famous project from a french engineering school. likewise germany has the fachhochschule, which is also expressly for vocational education at university level. i would not call those equivalents to lamda school, mostly because lambda school is private profit oriented startup, whereas french and german engineering schools are establis…

Same applies in Portugal and Spain, actually I think most European countries follow similar models.

In Portugal ?

Re: Why Computing Students Should Contribute to Open Source Software Projects

#119

Post by Bayart »

pjc50 wrote: post #32
oytis wrote: post #8

> in the 21st century programming proficiency on its own is neither representative of the skills that the marketplace requires from computing graduates, nor does it offer the strong vocational qualifications it once did. Universities are not vocational education facilities though. Time a student has in university is better spent on getting deeper understanding of things that are hard to pick up in the workplace, and…

> Universities are not vocational education facilities though I see this argument a lot; universities would like to not be vocational education, but unavoidably they are. Certainly for all the older class of professional job: engineer, actuary, lawyer, doctor. For those you absolutely have to go to university to even begin your vocational training. Programming is different in that the degree is less of a hard require…

>What's the UK equivalent to Lambda School? The French equivalent?

France has *tons* of vocational dev training, through a variety of systems. They are mostly split between :

- Public technical schools (ran by the state) that deliver degrees with ECTS credits (pan-European degree system) over 2/3 years.

- Technical training schools, mostly private, that deliver titles validated by the Ministry of Work. ie. industry certifications only valid domestically. Over 6/12 months.

French engineering schools are a completely different beast and would be considered part of the university system in the US. They issue masters degrees over 5 years valid pretty much everywhere and the title of Engineer (it's illegal in France to call yourself an engineer without it !).

Re: Why Computing Students Should Contribute to Open Source Software Projects

#120

Post by watwut »

teekert wrote: post #35

I felt the same when I studied Biology, I proposed to the prof to let students write Wikipedia articles, instead of making them write so much text that ended up in a bin. It would mean a meaningful contribution to the world, + a prof was going to check it already anyway, so it would probably result in a good Wikipedia article. They never went for it.

Because then the students would have to spend additional time to navigate Wikipedia culture and maintainers. That is not the course goal at all. They would also ended up fighting among themselves if multiple students ended up picking similar topics.
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