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The EU’s disputed system of geographical indications is taking over the planet (2017)

politico.eu

191–200 of 265 posts

Re: The EU’s disputed system of geographical indications is taking over the planet (2017)

#191
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve never tried American-made “feta”, but I have tried American-made “cheddar”, and it’s so far from the real stuff it’s closer to “vegan cheese”. If this is due to generally lower standards, or actually because of the differences in milk and/or bacterial cultures, I couldn’t possibly comment. But it is noticeable.

"Cheddar cheese" has been produced in America for hundreds of years - the technique was brought over by English colonists. There are many different types of "cheddar" in the US now, including several different regional cheddars (think Vermont cheddar and Wisconsin cheddar). Some are more like English cheddar, some are quite different. But it would be silly to insist that only cheddar from Cheddar in England can be ca…

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Re: The EU’s disputed system of geographical indications is taking over the planet (2017)

#192
From the article:

> That means non-EU farmers and exporters take a direct hit. When the EU wins protection for, say, Italian Parmesan and Greek feta in a deal with Japan, it means that Australian and U.S. dairies are barred from selling their products there under those labels. They instead have to rebrand and use labels such as "Parmesan-style," which often turn off consumers who may see the products as unauthentic.

Because they are! For example, as far as I can tell, most of the "feta" cheese made in the US is made with cow's milk, whereas Greek feta is traditionally made with sheep's milk and up to 30% goat's milk. This part of the tradition is protected by the feta Protected Designation of Origin.

Btw, cheese made in the same way as feta, but with cow's milk, is instead known as "telemes" in Greek (and I think telemea in Romania). Telemes is also a Greek PDO cheese. So the cow's milk "feta" sold in the US should be more correctly labelled as "telemes", but of course "feta" is more recognisable. On the other hand, the Greek diaspora that the article alleges are dismayed by the EU GIs should know the difference between feta and telemes, or at least they should if they have brought their cheesemaking traditions with them to the New World, again as the article alleges, and so they should be more annoyed that telemes is sold as feta in the US and that nobody can find a good slab of feta in the entire US.

But I digress. The article continues:

> To some, the very idea of signing away their heritage still rankles, however. "The Old World supplied the immigrants. It seems to be very weird that you’re saying that people can’t take culture with them," said one dairy negotiator who declined to be named for fear of influencing current negotiations with the EU.

It's not that weird. Even in EU countries, not everyone can make a particular kind of food or drink that has a Protected Designation of Origin. This may be lost in translation, in the article, but for example Parmigiano Reggiano can only be made in (quoting from wikipedia):

the provinces of Reggio Emilia, Parma, the part of Bologna west of the Reno, and Modena (all in Emilia-Romagna); and the part of Mantua (Lombardy) on the right/south bank of the Po. Parmigiano is the Italian adjective for Parma and Reggiano that for Reggio Emilia.

So for instance, cheesemakers in Puglia or Sicily cannot make parmesan style cheese and call it "Parmigiano Regiano", even though they're Italians. In the same way, the feta cheese PDO only covers the Greek regions of Thessaly, Thrace, Epirus, Macedonia, Central Greece, Peloponse and Lesvos, so Greek cheesemakers in the Ionian islands cannot sell their cheese as "feta" and must sell it as "white cheese" instead. And so on.

If Italians can't make Parmigiano regiano because they're not in Reggio Emilia, and Greeks can't make feta in Greece because they're in the wrong area of Greece, it is not so far fetched that Canadian Greeks can't make feta in Canada.

Re: The EU’s disputed system of geographical indications is taking over the planet (2017)

#193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So all you have to do is look at where it where it was made on the label -- is that too difficult?

> So all you have to do is look at where it where it was made on the label -- is that too difficult? Apparently yes. Otherwise why would anyone insist on this? I’m also not at all against seeing the entire new world having to eat “Parmesan style cheese” just to reinforce my own feeling of old-world superiority (I’m half joking, but you get the point of why this may be a thing)

They insist on this because doing so makes it harder for people who only want the particular style of cheese and don't care where it's made to find any product other than the one that's been given an EU monopoly. For example, for a while Parmesan was a generic name for the style of cheese and Parmigiano-Reggiano was the PDO that people who deeply cared about the origins of their cheese could look for. This wasn't enough for Italian cheese producers, though, so they sued in court to get their PDO extended to Parmesan too. Now the generic version has to be sold as "Italian style hard cheese" and similarly vague, confusing names.

Re: The EU’s disputed system of geographical indications is taking over the planet (2017)

#194
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the thing is, what if you produce feta with the exact same ingredients and recipe in Australia? The customer gets the exact same thing, only made somewhere else. I'm all for quality standards, so that customers can now exactly what they get. But be able to use a name based on the location where something is produced, that doesn't protect the customer at all. It only protects a selected set of producers.

Nothing stops you from making this style of cheese in Australia, it's just that to sell it into the EU you have to call it something else. Literally you have to make up a new name for it, that's all. Interestingly the Australian wine industry fought a long and hard battle in the 1980s to use French names like "Beaujolais" (against the French INAO). They lost. And now they produce their own wines with different names…

Well, that's what article points out -- you can't do it in domestic market too.

Re: The EU’s disputed system of geographical indications is taking over the planet (2017)

#195
post #76

>"The Old World supplied the immigrants. It seems to be very weird that you’re saying that people can’t take culture with them," You can take the culture, not the terroir , that's the point. Actual buffalo mozzarella from Campania, to take something that would be familiar to an English-speaking audience, just tastes different. Using the same process isn't enough . And that's assuming the culture survives untouched, w…

Many traditional cheese is made in caves. Each cave has different temperature, humidity and with a unique microbiota that is exclusive and relatively stable. This is often the bottleneck in production. You can't made more cheese than the space available in caves.

1) Is not easy to replicate it, even if you steal the recipe.

2) The laws that regulate the process will differ for other countries, because the culture is different and there are also concepts like kosher, etc.

3) And you can't use a building always. The undesirable microorganisms in a house will overcome easily the desirable ones contaminating the product

Re: The EU’s disputed system of geographical indications is taking over the planet (2017)

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if you produce exactly the same sneakers than Nike? That does not protect the customer and protects the producers too. But somehow, nobody compains about that. I don't see why brands should be more protected that countries or regions name.

Champagne is not a trademark like Nike. While I think everyone should be able to produce Champagne under the name Champagne, I think only Veuve Clicquot, Bollinger, ... should be able to use those specific names. Those are trademarks like Nike.

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Re: The EU’s disputed system of geographical indications is taking over the planet (2017)

#197
post #9

> The wording is strange, it looks like they say that it is wrong to say that it is inauthentic. But, there is no doubt, if you buy Greek feta that is manufactured in Australia in addition with different recipes and ingredients origins, it is clearly inauthentic and deceptive.

I mean, as long as they're basically using the same ingredients and process, why not say something like "Wisconsin Parmesan" instead of essentially "Fake Parmesan"? I couldn't care less about getting Parmesan from the actual place in Italy, but I would like the same ingredients and the same cooking process.

Re: The EU’s disputed system of geographical indications is taking over the planet (2017)

#198
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is mainly that these are producer protections masquerading as consumer protections. I would have no problem with a definition of "feta" that focused on things like the ingredients, process or qualities of the resulting cheese. Those are the sorts of things that a law intended to protect consumers would focus on. Instead, the EU defines "feta" by region (with some ingredient and process requirements as well),…

> My point is mainly that these are producer protections masquerading as consumer protections. And my point is that this is not true; that they are both , and it's important. So I guess we are disagreeing after all :) I think a non-region tied version of this would be great, but "anything goes" is probably worse than current state. Of course any sensible discussion about the producer protection side has to look at du…

There are protections that aren't tied to regions, called Traditional speciality guaranteed (https://ec.europa.eu/info/food-farming-fisheries/food-safety...).

The "problem" is that typically when there is a strong food brand, it also has a strong geographic association, and so TSG is available only for lesser brands.

Re: The EU’s disputed system of geographical indications is taking over the planet (2017)

#199
post #9

> The wording is strange, it looks like they say that it is wrong to say that it is inauthentic. But, there is no doubt, if you buy Greek feta that is manufactured in Australia in addition with different recipes and ingredients origins, it is clearly inauthentic and deceptive.

But the thing is, what if you produce feta with the exact same ingredients and recipe in Australia? The customer gets the exact same thing, only made somewhere else. I'm all for quality standards, so that customers can now exactly what they get. But be able to use a name based on the location where something is produced, that doesn't protect the customer at all. It only protects a selected set of producers.

How do you ensure that feta in Australia is made with the same ingredient and recipe as Greek feta? And how do you ensure that the same happens in China, Vietnam, or any other place which would like to compete for the international feta market? It's not like the Greek can go and check what they do in China (or Australia).

Just call it Australian feta-style cheese, and if consumers like it, they'll buy it. But at least they'll be able to choose if they want the "Greek feta as in from Greece" or a different thing, with different guarantees.

Re: The EU’s disputed system of geographical indications is taking over the planet (2017)

#200
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it hard to believe we can’t figure out why it tastes different.

We usually can. But does it matter? Canadian cheese tastes like nothing on a good day. If by negligence, consumer taste or regulations it seems it's not bothering most consumers.

Well, canadian industrial cheese is a thing, but small artisanal quality products with terroir qualities is also vibrant. You can find over 300 different hand-crafted of these gems within a 3h drive from Montreal.. In places where PC products are far and remote. Even in Eastern Ontario and New-Brunswick.
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