Live data from Hacker News

Key witness in Assange case admits to lies in indictment

stundin.is

281–290 of 334 posts

Re: Key witness in Assange case admits to lies in indictment

#281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) You cannot even come close to proving your statement, and 2) None of this would even be illegal if it weren't for intel agencies acting as political hit squads.

It has already been documented and laid out in the Mueller Report, and summarized here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Democratic_National_Commi...

We have all read the Mueller report. It entirely fails on the points above. It’s right there in the link you sent. Do you care to differentiate between unsubstantiated allegations and reality? You just want everyone to pretend your conspiratorial story, based strictly on allegations, is true?

Re: Key witness in Assange case admits to lies in indictment

#282
post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before the cables, there were the leaks on Afghanistan and Iraq that were unredacted.

Both the Iraq and Afghanistan leaks were redacted.

According even to Wikileaks, no, they were not redacted

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/aug/10/afghanistan-wa...

Re: Key witness in Assange case admits to lies in indictment

#283
post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You took that quote, which simply doesn’t say what you want. Then you slapped your take on the end, which is what you want the quote to say, but it doesn’t. Wrong.

Ok, what does the quote actually say?

It says “we have some information that is not worth publishing.” Your filigree about relative hurdle for publication is your invention entirely.

Guess what? I have some information that is not worth publishing too. I bet you do too. So what would you propose the action be there?

Re: Key witness in Assange case admits to lies in indictment

#284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you invented the “most of my associates” part which is the substance of your smear, so you seem a bit disingenuous. As for this fellow, intel agencies don’t get to both conjure lies AND claim guilt by association--with 5-year gap in the timing to boot--though surely they are not beneath trying. Surely the ends justify the means, right? Quite the contrary to your misguided assertions, way back in 1993, Assange c…

As they take Assange to court, they’ll have to mount credible legal arguments, present convincing evidence, and deal with counter-evidence / cross examination from the defense. As I said, “these witnesses who worked with my client have admitted to being liars” can sometimes be a good legal argument. But as a third party observer, it doesn’t seem like the slam-dunk vindication of Assange that some here are implying. F…

Anyone still following along here may be interested in Marcy Wheeler’s close examination of the article under discussion, and how it relates to the Assange indictment:

https://www.emptywheel.net/2021/06/27/wikileaks-and-edward-s...

Re: Key witness in Assange case admits to lies in indictment

#285
post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, what does the quote actually say?

It says “we have some information that is not worth publishing.” Your filigree about relative hurdle for publication is your invention entirely. Guess what? I have some information that is not worth publishing too. I bet you do too. So what would you propose the action be there?

That sounds good in a vacuum, but it is logic that necessitates that everything they do publish is therefore worth publishing. How many of the tens of thousands of emails they leaked from Democrats were worthy of publishing? How many of them had information that had public value in exposing? If the answer is not “all of them” then why would the standard be different for Republicans?

Re: Key witness in Assange case admits to lies in indictment

#286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I understand it, signifiers included command and control servers known to be under Russian state control. So, yes, someone would need to have piggybacked on Russian state controlled servers. > Technical signifiers are not difficult to spoof, nothing about them requires any nation state backing as they rely on heuristics which are semi-public Do you work in this field? I've basically only seen lay people suggest th…

> As I understand it, signifiers included command and control servers known to be under Russian state control. If you could be more specific, we could address this. However, you cannot, because the allegations are all this vague. If it's the assertion that I think it is, the "command and control servers" were asserted by Crowdstrike to be under Russian control, and its evidence for this, again, were somewhere deep in…

All of your articles are from 2016 and 2017, meaning they predate the indictments and muller report.

Why do you cite older and less extensive reporting as though it debunks more recent and more thorough investigation?

> Furthermore, IP addresses change constantly

Yes, and if this was the only evidence, you'd maybe have a point. But, the collection of evidence is:

    - a russian-state associated IP was used to
     - deploy software developed by the Russian government
     - to steal data that would be beneficial to Russia if published
     - and was ultimately published via channels known to be associated with Russia (I'm not talking strictly WikiLeaks here, but also how they got the data)
For each of these bullet points, there are multiple pieces of supporting data.

Your alternative explanation is what, exactly? A random ukranian group hacking for the lulz successfully stole this info and either did it so well that the us thought it was actually Russia, or the us lied and claimed it was Russia. That lulzy group proceeded to publish the data via russian-appearing channels or Russia then stole the data from the hackers to publish it. And said group never took credit, even though "we tricked the CIA" is about as much cyber hacker cred as you can get.

I apply Occam's razor. What's your excuse?

Keep in mind, I can apply exactly your logic and say that appearing amateurish is good operational practice for a state actor as it will make it more likey for people to claim that the attacker wasn't a state actor. That's the problem with unfalsifiable claims like yours, I can simply invent a better conspiracy, so to speak.

Re: Key witness in Assange case admits to lies in indictment

#287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As they take Assange to court, they’ll have to mount credible legal arguments, present convincing evidence, and deal with counter-evidence / cross examination from the defense. As I said, “these witnesses who worked with my client have admitted to being liars” can sometimes be a good legal argument. But as a third party observer, it doesn’t seem like the slam-dunk vindication of Assange that some here are implying. F…

Anyone still following along here may be interested in Marcy Wheeler’s close examination of the article under discussion, and how it relates to the Assange indictment: https://www.emptywheel.net/2021/06/27/wikileaks-and-edward-s...

That is a very poor analysis and it reads like someone is trying to fire cheap shots at strawmen.

> This is what Assange’s boosters are now staking his defense on: convincing you to accept the words of liars as truth.

The people this article calls "Assange boosters" aren't rallying behind this person or claiming that he's not lying now, they're saying: "This man is a pathological liar either way, can't be trusted, and thus is useless as a witness. This man's words carry precisely zero weight at this point, whatever he claims."

That blog entry goes on to address a bunch of other strawmen that resemble no argument made in this HN thread. I don't know why you would link it.

Re: Key witness in Assange case admits to lies in indictment

#288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has already been documented and laid out in the Mueller Report, and summarized here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Democratic_National_Commi...

We have all read the Mueller report. It entirely fails on the points above. It’s right there in the link you sent. Do you care to differentiate between unsubstantiated allegations and reality? You just want everyone to pretend your conspiratorial story, based strictly on allegations, is true?

It is true and substantiated, and detailed in the Mueller report. Just because you don't like these facts don't make them false.

Re: Key witness in Assange case admits to lies in indictment

#289
post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both the Iraq and Afghanistan leaks were redacted.

According even to Wikileaks, no, they were not redacted https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/aug/10/afghanistan-wa...

> WikiLeaks withheld around 15,000 reports to protect informants.

The accusation was that the Afghan documents were not sufficiently redacted, but they were redacted. The Iraq War documents, released later, were more heavily redacted.

Re: Key witness in Assange case admits to lies in indictment

#290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As they take Assange to court, they’ll have to mount credible legal arguments, present convincing evidence, and deal with counter-evidence / cross examination from the defense. As I said, “these witnesses who worked with my client have admitted to being liars” can sometimes be a good legal argument. But as a third party observer, it doesn’t seem like the slam-dunk vindication of Assange that some here are implying. F…

Anyone still following along here may be interested in Marcy Wheeler’s close examination of the article under discussion, and how it relates to the Assange indictment: https://www.emptywheel.net/2021/06/27/wikileaks-and-edward-s...

Marcy Wheeler holds a PhD in comparative literature. Long blogging about Russiagate and addicted to close reading of legal documents without the least connection to law, Marcy has developed a steady following to which she misinterprets information and presents it as factual. You can see how stoopid this is right off the bat, couched in thousands of words:

A guy provided evidence, and then he said he lied, so he was telling the truth the first time. Thanks Marcy.

I do encourage you all to open the link and note how she writes in what is effectively a context-free grammar, presupposing conclusions, discussing casually about how they're correct, and linking back to more incorrect interpretations. The only way to even try to parse such nonsense is to click on endless links, which will eventually get you back to absolutely nothing. Like Lord of the Rings, except backwards and the characters travel in circles.

If you like this, Seth Abramson is similar, slightly more legal authority, equal intellectual weight.

Post reply on HN