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The EU’s disputed system of geographical indications is taking over the planet (2017)

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Re: The EU’s disputed system of geographical indications is taking over the planet (2017)

#161

Post by M2Ys4U »

123pie123 wrote: post #138
bcrosby95 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that Cheddar isn't protected, but "West Country Farmhouse Cheddar" is. My cynical take is that it doesn't have a more general designation because companies couldn't profit from Cheddar the way they do if it had to be produced in Cheddar Gorge.

I'm surprised the town/ region of cheddar haven't tried to get geographical right to cheddar cheese

IIRC, there's only one cheese producer left in the actual village of Cheddar (others have moved to the surrounding areas), and they don't want to use a a PDO.

Re: The EU’s disputed system of geographical indications is taking over the planet (2017)

#162

Post by pmyteh »

rhn_mk1 wrote: post #114
alkonaut wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So all you have to do is look at where it where it was made on the label -- is that too difficult? Apparently yes. Otherwise why would anyone insist on this? I’m also not at all against seeing the entire new world having to eat “Parmesan style cheese” just to reinforce my own feeling of old-world superiority (I’m half joking, but you get the point of why this may be a thing)

The reason some people insist on this is because they themselves value the provenance (place in this case) where the product was made, and they insist on discounting the opinion of those who care only about the end result. When Parmesan is only made in Italy, those who care don't have to look at the label, but those who only care about the parmesan part have a hard time tracking under which label the non-Italian vers…

It's not really a problem in practice. The UK follows EU food labeling rules, at least for now, and so this is a real (not hypothetical) situation.

The easy way is to make it clear through trade dress. Parmesan is normally sold in wedge-shaped plastic trays, in the cheese aisle. So are other grano-type cheeses like Grano Padana. So essentially everything in that packaging is 'parmesan-like'. For the crappy pre-grated stuff in tubs it'll have a label like 'Italian-style hard cheese'.

Same is true of Champagne. The other sparkling wines also come in sparkling wine bottles. And are labeled Cava, Prosecco, Three Choirs Special Reserve, or whatever.

Personally, I much prefer actual parmesan to other (even very similar) Italian cheeses, but am not a fan of most champagnes. So I'd say that the PDO-style accurate labeling was a net positive to me as a consumer, leaving aside the economic protectionism bit.

Re: The EU’s disputed system of geographical indications is taking over the planet (2017)

#163

Post by jhrozek »

Zababa wrote: post #146
DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always feel these arguments are a bit disingenuous. You would be extremely hard-pressed to tell "authentic" Feta cheese apart from "Feta-like" cheese produced in any number of places around the world. These laws are not about protecting the consumer from inauthentic products. They're about protecting producers from competition. Exclusive ownership of famous culinary names like "Feta" and "Champagne" is valuable, an…

> These laws are not about protecting the consumer from inauthentic products. They're about protecting producers from competition. Yes, they are, and I have no problem with that. When I buy "Comté", I want the money to go in the region where my grandparents were born and raised, where we spent lots of vacations visiting museum, caves and enjoying the local cheese. I don't want some kind of global industry stealing th…

Off topic but which Eastern European cheese did you find that you like? The only ones I even saw sold outside its are of origin were usually underwhelming. I’m originally from central/Eastern Europe and know very small and local producers but I’m really interested in what you found you can buy in your area.

Re: The EU’s disputed system of geographical indications is taking over the planet (2017)

#164

Post by Zababa »

mkr-hn wrote: post #158
Zababa wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm French, and these kind of things are very important to me. When I buy cheese for example, more than just eat cheese, I want to know that I'm helping some tradition continue, and giving money to specific regions where the product is traditionally made. That applies for French products, Italian products, American products, Japanese products, you name it.

What kinds of things do you buy from America? Out of curiosity.

Unfortunately not much. While we can easily access some of the spirits, american wine is really hard to find, and don't even get me started on the cheese. Which is why I hope these kinds of law would educate the public more and lead to more specialized stores. French people usually don't care much about "traditional americans products", which meansamericaine that for example even Cheddar is really hard to find, and we're far from the variety that I could get in America.

Re: The EU’s disputed system of geographical indications is taking over the planet (2017)

#165

Post by throwaway210222 »

Zababa wrote: post #160
throwaway210222 wrote: post #52

This is the logical end game of whinging about cultural appropriation: the big boys also get to play. Perhaps a licence to use the English language?

Other people using your language actually benefits you, that's not the case for other people using your trademark.

I really, really didn't think I needed to add a sarcasm tag.

Re: The EU’s disputed system of geographical indications is taking over the planet (2017)

#166

Post by [deleted] »

Zababa wrote: post #164
mkr-hn wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kinds of things do you buy from America? Out of curiosity.

Unfortunately not much. While we can easily access some of the spirits, american wine is really hard to find, and don't even get me started on the cheese. Which is why I hope these kinds of law would educate the public more and lead to more specialized stores. French people usually don't care much about "traditional americans products", which meansamericaine that for example even Cheddar is really hard to find, and w…

[deleted]

Re: The EU’s disputed system of geographical indications is taking over the planet (2017)

#167

Post by Zababa »

jhrozek wrote: post #163
Zababa wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These laws are not about protecting the consumer from inauthentic products. They're about protecting producers from competition. Yes, they are, and I have no problem with that. When I buy "Comté", I want the money to go in the region where my grandparents were born and raised, where we spent lots of vacations visiting museum, caves and enjoying the local cheese. I don't want some kind of global industry stealing th…

Off topic but which Eastern European cheese did you find that you like? The only ones I even saw sold outside its are of origin were usually underwhelming. I’m originally from central/Eastern Europe and know very small and local producers but I’m really interested in what you found you can buy in your area.

I have no idea how to pronounce it, but one I really like is I think a braided and smoked cheese like this one: https://dks22p812qygs.cloudfront.net/UserFiles/ib_product/14...

The other that I really like looks a bit like this: http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0250/1387/8893/products/Arr... but I think that it's younger than the one here.

I have no doubts that the local ones are probably way better, but I still haven't taken the time to visit Eastern/Central Europe.

Re: The EU’s disputed system of geographical indications is taking over the planet (2017)

#168

Post by dmitriid »

rsynnott wrote: post #149
dmitriid wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you cannot make some whisky in, say, France, and sell it as "Scotch" I'm actually totally fine with geographic specifications for a general name. Like "Scotch whiskey" vs. "Irish whiskey". But some things do reach ridiculous proportions like Greece, Bulgaria and Turkey all trying to lay claim to yoghurt.

> I'm actually totally fine with geographic specifications for a general name. Like "Scotch whiskey" vs. "Irish whiskey". Wait, what are you complaining about, then? Cognac and Champagne are places.

And bourbon is the name of a French dynasty. And bubbles in champagne were popularized by the English and the English (re-)discovered all the necessary infrastructure for production and were the first to describe the process for it. And so on.

Names do get commoditized, regardless of their origin [1]. If Scotch whiskey is labeled as "Scotch whiskey", then it should only be fair to label "Champagne" as "Sparkling wine from Champagne" then wouldn't it?

Oh wait. "Scoth whiskey" apparently doesn't deserve protection (except in the UK), unlike Champagne.

[1] This reminds me of Google ebeing very unhappy when "google" entered dictionaries as a verb.

Re: The EU’s disputed system of geographical indications is taking over the planet (2017)

#169

Post by snovv_crash »

distances wrote: post #133
snovv_crash wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's disingenuous. If I buy a wine labelled "Champagne" I expect a dry sparkling wine, not a random red wine from a certain region in France. It is used to indicate product type, not origin.

You can't buy red wine with the name champagne, that's a silly notion. I expect champagne to match not only the wine type, but also quality requirements, specific production methods, grape types, and yes also area of production.

That's exactly the point I was making, a different variety of wine wouldn't be champagne. And it would behoof you to note the order of matching you yourself presented. Area of production comes last.

Just wait until the Germans join the fun, with Hamburg having the copyright on Hamburgers and Frankfurt on Frankfurters.

Re: The EU’s disputed system of geographical indications is taking over the planet (2017)

#170

Post by dantheman »

123pie123 wrote: post #135
dantheman wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But we don't call it french champagne, we just call it champaign or cognac.

champagne is a region in france ie a location, no need to call it 'french' champagne. so they're able to say champagne can only be made in the region of champagne You're free to say sparkling wine - which is what champagne is

These terms long ago became generalized. There are already trademarked brands, what does this extra layer of protectionism add. I don't think we should allow anyone to call a hamburger, they can call them ground beef patties on a bun - which is what they are.

Same with sandwiches outside of sandwich. Probably the same with indian pale ales, etc.... The geographic term describes a style.

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