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Andreessen on Crypto

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Re: Andreessen on Crypto

#91

Post by darkerside »

arcturus17 wrote: post #20
darkerside wrote: post #18

For everybody saying cryptocurrency has no use, you must not remember how much trouble society had envisioning the uses for the very internet upon which we are now posting. Here's an example of a use case recently gaining ground. https://mobile.twitter.com/BrantlyMillegan/status/1402388133... I don't have a crystal ball, but it seems foolish and short-sighted to imagine we are certain that there are no legitimate use…

The internet took like a year to take off since it became commercially available. It took the world by storm once people could connect to it, and viable and useful ideas and applications (browsers, search engines, eCommerce, filesharing, etc) proliferated at breakneck speed.

The internet did not take a year to take off. AOL for DOS was released in 1991, and the dot com bust want for another decade. I guess it depends what you mean by "take off", but I'm old enough to remember that in the late 90s, the internet was very poorly understood by most people, and while experts predicted it would be the engine of our economy eventually, your average person couldn't see it.

Re: Andreessen on Crypto

#92

Post by darkerside »

phpsuks wrote: post #69
arcturus17 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The internet took like a year to take off since it became commercially available. It took the world by storm once people could connect to it, and viable and useful ideas and applications (browsers, search engines, eCommerce, filesharing, etc) proliferated at breakneck speed.

I think the way Crypto bulls sell this analogy is flawed. Internet had no competition from any other industry. It was nothing like anything that ever existed. In terms of Internet's development itself, we went from dial up to optical fibers. People in 21st century who use internet have no idea about pains of dial up connection. Crypto is replacing something that has existed for centuries - the financial system. The f…

The internet was a communications medium, and not an industry. When it became big enough, it spawned an industry of Big Tech companies. Crypto in this example is the new financial medium. The industry that could be birthed perhaps doesn't exist yet.

Re: Andreessen on Crypto

#93

Post by darkerside »

captn3m0 wrote: post #85
arcturus17 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The internet took like a year to take off since it became commercially available. It took the world by storm once people could connect to it, and viable and useful ideas and applications (browsers, search engines, eCommerce, filesharing, etc) proliferated at breakneck speed.

There's also the fact that product-lifecycles have become incredibly short these days. Airlines took 68 years to get to 50M users, Mobile Phones 12 years, the Internet took 7 years, and Pokemon Go got there in 19 days[0]. We're at 12 years of Crypto and "a tech of the future" is now an increasingly difficult proposition to make as we're nowhere near real usecases. [0]: https://www.visualcapitalist.com/how-long-does-i…

Cherrypicked examples. How long did SpaceX take to land a rocket on Mars?

Edit: Also, no response to the SSO use case I shared??

Re: Andreessen on Crypto

#94

Post by lottin »

lowkey wrote: post #86
lottin wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You said there are a "whole host of problems associated with centralized middlemen" but the only "problem" you mention is the unpredictability of the money supply in fiat currencies, which, leaving aside whether it's even a problem, it certainly isn't representative of a set of problems "associated with centralized middlemen". And the claim that the inflation rate is unpredictable in the absence of an adaptive moneta…

I’ll stick to the problems that Bitcoin solves as I know that space better than Ethereum. Bitcoin solves a whole host of problems: - hard currency with fixed supply that cannot be inflated by any individual no matter how powerful - fixed emission (debasement) rate that can be calculated for the next 100 years and beyond - the ability to self-custody a digital store of value (no KYC required) the owner of the private…

IIRC, the question was what problems does distributed consensus solve.

Re: Andreessen on Crypto

#95

Post by ipython »

dcolkitt wrote: post #70
mypastself wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does real-life information enter a smart contract, and how do you make sure all sides make good on their dues?

A real life human still has to decide about real life information to put on the chain, but the point is we’re now globally unconstrained about who we choose to arbitrate that information. That allows for an intense global competition for trustworthy and reliable sources. Say we enter a weather derivative contract that pays off based on total rainfall. If there’s a dispute, instead of a two-bit local judge playing ama…

But how does that change anything? I don’t like the output of the smart contract, so I sue accuweather, the smart contract owner, and anyone else involved in the transaction. Some “two bit” judge then adjudicates the dispute after all. What if the judge rules that accuweather’s record is incorrect?

All I see is that now I have yet another party to trust: whomever wrote the smart contract. Why should I trust him/her? How do I know that there isn’t an intentional logic issue or unintentional bug that will end up with me losing my money? What’s my recourse then?

Re: Andreessen on Crypto

#96

Post by lowkey »

lottin wrote: post #94
lowkey wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ll stick to the problems that Bitcoin solves as I know that space better than Ethereum. Bitcoin solves a whole host of problems: - hard currency with fixed supply that cannot be inflated by any individual no matter how powerful - fixed emission (debasement) rate that can be calculated for the next 100 years and beyond - the ability to self-custody a digital store of value (no KYC required) the owner of the private…

IIRC, the question was what problems does distributed consensus solve.

Per my comment above, every single point addresses the question of what problem distributed consensus solves as none of these points are possible without distributed consensus.

Bitcoin was used for the examples as it and the Blockchain it is built upon are the original distributed consensus protocol.

I suspect you already knew that but may be having difficulty admitting that I have made my case and that your position might be wrong.

Re: Andreessen on Crypto

#97

Post by lottin »

lowkey wrote: post #96
lottin wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC, the question was what problems does distributed consensus solve.

Per my comment above, every single point addresses the question of what problem distributed consensus solves as none of these points are possible without distributed consensus. Bitcoin was used for the examples as it and the Blockchain it is built upon are the original distributed consensus protocol. I suspect you already knew that but may be having difficulty admitting that I have made my case and that your position…

No, none of the points addresses the question.

How is

> it works 24/7 and never takes a bank holiday

a problem? That's not a problem. That's a feature of some system.

And what "distributed consensus" has to do with it is even more mysterious.

Re: Andreessen on Crypto

#98

Post by lowkey »

lottin wrote: post #97
lowkey wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Per my comment above, every single point addresses the question of what problem distributed consensus solves as none of these points are possible without distributed consensus. Bitcoin was used for the examples as it and the Blockchain it is built upon are the original distributed consensus protocol. I suspect you already knew that but may be having difficulty admitting that I have made my case and that your position…

No, none of the points addresses the question. How is > it works 24/7 and never takes a bank holiday a problem? That's not a problem. That's a feature of some system. And what "distributed consensus" has to do with it is even more mysterious.

I see you can cherry-pick but can you address the many many other valid points I raised?

Also, explain how a bank that is only open during banking hours say 8 hours/5 days per week/250 days per year is better for consumers than a system open 24 hours/7 days per week/365 days per year. How is that a feature for the consumer?

Re: Andreessen on Crypto

#99

Post by arcturus17 »

darkerside wrote: post #91
arcturus17 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The internet took like a year to take off since it became commercially available. It took the world by storm once people could connect to it, and viable and useful ideas and applications (browsers, search engines, eCommerce, filesharing, etc) proliferated at breakneck speed.

The internet did not take a year to take off. AOL for DOS was released in 1991, and the dot com bust want for another decade. I guess it depends what you mean by "take off", but I'm old enough to remember that in the late 90s, the internet was very poorly understood by most people, and while experts predicted it would be the engine of our economy eventually, your average person couldn't see it.

My dad in Spain, which was an internet backwater back in the day, was buying books from Barnes & Noble circa 96. I was downloading songs off Napster around 98.

The dot com bust, which was around 99/00, was a build-up of huge economic expectations around the internet indeed. Granted that this bubble was mostly caused supply-side (many companies barely had users), but the internet as a whole had millions and millions of users, ~250M circa 99 [1], carrying out all sorts of activities.

Whether most end-users were aware of its true potential is irrelevant - the comparison to crypto, both in terms of timelines (13 years and counting with few applications to show for it) and usefulness, is preposterous.

[1] https://stats.areppim.com/stats/stats_internetxfcstx2017.htm

Re: Andreessen on Crypto

#100

Post by arcturus17 »

CyberDildonics wrote: post #44
arcturus17 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The internet took like a year to take off since it became commercially available. It took the world by storm once people could connect to it, and viable and useful ideas and applications (browsers, search engines, eCommerce, filesharing, etc) proliferated at breakneck speed.

It might feel like this but it is anything but true. Prodigy was available in the early 90s and the age of 286 computers. AOL and compuserve were available very early too and for years their uses were email, online encyclopedias, looking up jpegs and eventually chat rooms. Lots of people saw no need for it in the dialup days. It took a decade for the first cable connections to become available. Right now cryptocurren…

> It might feel like this but it is anything but true. Prodigy was available in the early 90s and the age of 286 computers.

Amazon was launched in 94. My dad was buying books from Barnes and Noble and Amazon and having them sent internationally around 96. By the end of the 90s the internet had 250M users carrying out all kinds of activities, including commercial.

The comparison with crypto just does not stand its ground. It's been 13 years and counting and there is barely anything to show for it except a lucky few people riding Lambos.

[1] https://stats.areppim.com/stats/stats_internetxfcstx2017.htm

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