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The blackout Palestinians are facing on social media

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Re: The blackout Palestinians are facing on social media

#281
post #196
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should know that saying some of my favorite people are jewish is something that sounds pretty bad. The idea that you would be branded as an anti-semite and lose your job because you are critical of Israel also sounds bad. A lot of people are critical of Israel's policies, including many Israelis. There is absolutely no problem with that.

> The idea that you would be branded as an anti-semite and lose your job because you are critical of Israel also sounds bad. Sounds very plausible instead. The original cancel culture is exactly that used to silence critics of Israel- the accusation of antisemitism has been used for decades to terminate careers. People have learned very well to keep their mouths shut.

There's lots of critics of Israel. Can you give me 3 (or 10) examples or people who lost their jobs as a result of some reasonable criticism of Israel's policies? Weren't there recent petitions in Google and Amazon to boycott Israel? Did anyone lose their jobs? And this is political activism at your workplace, which isn't exactly the same thing as stating your opinion outside work. If you choose to bring politics into your workplace anything can happen.

Let me tell you how this sounds to me as a Jewish person, it sounds like some sort of conspiracy theory that is alluding that "we" are somehow pulling some invisible strings to get people fired for being justly critical of Israel. I could be paranoid but honestly I've earned the right to be paranoid.

I would fight for anyone's right to criticize Israel. I would also fight for the discussion to be based on facts and for Israel not to be singled out for "preferential" treatment. There is no problem being critical of Israel. Antisemitism is a big problem. If you don't feel like you can draw this line just study the question before commenting. It's really not that hard.

Let me give you a specific example. If you say Israel is intentionally trying to inflict damage on Gaza in order to deter Hamas and the population from re-engaging Israel in the future and that's a questionable tactic. I would say this is reasonable criticism (at least should be discussed). If you say Israel should not be evicting Arabs from their homes at the moment from disputed territories even if they are legally entitled to, or you want to debate said legality. Fair game IMO. However if you say look how many Palestinians died vs. Israelis in the latest round of violence and use it as a measure of morality that is problematic. In war each side tries to minimize damage to their side and inflict as much damage on the other side. People saying this are either incredibly naive or are twisting the (sad) reality to fit some agenda IMO. I don't think what I am saying here is that you can only have a voice if you agree with me. You can even choose to disagree with me on the question of war and proportionality. But you better come to this discussion with some good supporting arguments. There is certainly a lot of history and a lot of room for debate about this.

Re: The blackout Palestinians are facing on social media

#282
post #281
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The idea that you would be branded as an anti-semite and lose your job because you are critical of Israel also sounds bad. Sounds very plausible instead. The original cancel culture is exactly that used to silence critics of Israel- the accusation of antisemitism has been used for decades to terminate careers. People have learned very well to keep their mouths shut.

There's lots of critics of Israel. Can you give me 3 (or 10) examples or people who lost their jobs as a result of some reasonable criticism of Israel's policies? Weren't there recent petitions in Google and Amazon to boycott Israel? Did anyone lose their jobs? And this is political activism at your workplace, which isn't exactly the same thing as stating your opinion outside work. If you choose to bring politics int…

You can hold any position on Israel up to and including that it does not have the right to exist and still not be anti-Semitic. I do not agree with the formation or expansion of Israel, including the Balfour Declaration. I am not anti-Semitic.

In fact I think anti-Semitism is a very real problem. Historically and now. It also hurts the legitimate arguments against Zionism because invariably real anti-Semites show up and become the focal point.

Re: The blackout Palestinians are facing on social media

#283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes it is, look at the numbers. 26 percent from europe, 27 percent from "non white" Middle east mainly, would be 28-29 percent but I am not including potential mizrahim from USA/Canada, even though many are probably persian/iraqi origin.

From the article, 2015 numbers: 26.26% Europe 4.64% Americas 10.75% Asia 14.3% Africa So no, “most Israelis“ don’t come from Arab countries.

Look at it carefully, there is no Middle East Continent, look at the countries in the list... Are you saying Iraq is not an Arab country, Because it is in Asia? No arabs in Morocco because it is in Africa? My point is that Israel is not "European Colonials". Argentinian ladino speaking sephardic jews white? An Iranian-American Jewish family moving to Israel is European? You are nitpicking, and more than half of the population is not 'european', also count in the the druze, bedouin, and christian and muslim arabs that live here, with full rights, political representation, and benefits

edit: Looking at your history "Peace is not possible on occupied land or in an apartheid state." seems like anything I can tell you wont matter because you have already drank the koolaid

Re: The blackout Palestinians are facing on social media

#284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article, 2015 numbers: 26.26% Europe 4.64% Americas 10.75% Asia 14.3% Africa So no, “most Israelis“ don’t come from Arab countries.

Look at it carefully, there is no Middle East Continent, look at the countries in the list... Are you saying Iraq is not an Arab country, Because it is in Asia? No arabs in Morocco because it is in Africa? My point is that Israel is not "European Colonials". Argentinian ladino speaking sephardic jews white? An Iranian-American Jewish family moving to Israel is European? You are nitpicking, and more than half of the p…

Iraq is included in Asia. Asia + Africa = 25.05% which is less than the 30.9% Europe + America. So you were incorrect when you said the majority of Jewish Israeli’s are from Arab nations.

As for your edit, that’s an ad hominem.

Re: The blackout Palestinians are facing on social media

#285
post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure this is the mic drop you think it is, since what you're pushing back on here is the idea that Palestinians living in Israel should be allowed to simultaneously remain in their homes and have full political rights and agency. Which of those two things do you disagree with? You're excluding the middle a lot in these comments, suggesting that the only two valid perspectives on this conflict are "Israel must…

>Ethnostates are immoral. Following this logic you may also believe families are immoral.

In fact I do not.

Re: The blackout Palestinians are facing on social media

#286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at it carefully, there is no Middle East Continent, look at the countries in the list... Are you saying Iraq is not an Arab country, Because it is in Asia? No arabs in Morocco because it is in Africa? My point is that Israel is not "European Colonials". Argentinian ladino speaking sephardic jews white? An Iranian-American Jewish family moving to Israel is European? You are nitpicking, and more than half of the p…

Iraq is included in Asia. Asia + Africa = 25.05% which is less than the 30.9% Europe + America. So you were incorrect when you said the majority of Jewish Israeli’s are from Arab nations. As for your edit, that’s an ad hominem.

You are still wrong.. when most of the jews were kicked out of Arab countries they went to countries all over the world United States, Europe, Argentina/Brasil.. You are not considering any of this and just pulling census 6 year old census data that doesnt describe ethnicity..

from the article: "About 44.9% percent of Israel's Jewish population identify as either Mizrahi or Sephardi, 44.2% identify as Ashkenazi, about 3% as Beta Israel and 7.9% as mixed or other"

This is from 2013, and there has been a lot more mixing since then.

Re: The blackout Palestinians are facing on social media

#287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Iraq is included in Asia. Asia + Africa = 25.05% which is less than the 30.9% Europe + America. So you were incorrect when you said the majority of Jewish Israeli’s are from Arab nations. As for your edit, that’s an ad hominem.

You are still wrong.. when most of the jews were kicked out of Arab countries they went to countries all over the world United States, Europe, Argentina/Brasil.. You are not considering any of this and just pulling census 6 year old census data that doesnt describe ethnicity.. from the article: "About 44.9% percent of Israel's Jewish population identify as either Mizrahi or Sephardi, 44.2% identify as Ashkenazi, abou…

You said the majority of Israeli Jews came from Arab countries. That is factually incorrect.

Your exact comment:

> ” Most Israelis come from Arab countries(because they were expelled)”

Re: The blackout Palestinians are facing on social media

#288
post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Religious flamewar will get you banned here. Please don't post like this, regardless of whose religion you have a problem with. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I'm confused why this post was described as "flamewar" as it's a single sentence of factually correct information.[1] The only part I'd take issue with is the use of the word "fable". Fables are succinct short stories which end in a moral lesson—and the apocalyptic Book of Revelation is neither short nor moral. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/05/14/h...

I was writing up a sibling reply and then caught the last word of the flagged statement. Using "fables" is dismissive and contentious.

I agree with the assessment but perhaps if it was phased as:

"Yes, because they believe that they need to be on the side of Israel for their anticipated apocalypse."

Or something like that. Unfortunately "people of faith" tend to take any sort of criticism of the mechanics of their faith as a personal attack. Pity.

Re: The blackout Palestinians are facing on social media

#289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are still wrong.. when most of the jews were kicked out of Arab countries they went to countries all over the world United States, Europe, Argentina/Brasil.. You are not considering any of this and just pulling census 6 year old census data that doesnt describe ethnicity.. from the article: "About 44.9% percent of Israel's Jewish population identify as either Mizrahi or Sephardi, 44.2% identify as Ashkenazi, abou…

You said the majority of Israeli Jews came from Arab countries. That is factually incorrect. Your exact comment: > ” Most Israelis come from Arab countries(because they were expelled)”

" "About 44.9% percent of Israel's Jewish population identify as either Mizrahi or Sephardi, 44.2% identify as Ashkenazi, about 3% as Beta Israel and 7.9% as mixed or other"" Here it is again, MOre than half, right here in your own, old source, that you aren't understanding.

And you are nitpicking because you don't want this to be true, because it breaks your narrative of White Colonial vs the Oppressed Palestinian Underdog. My initial reply to the guy was in response to him saying "inserting europeans". Israel is not a European nation. Just you say hate Israel and we can call it a day.

Re: The blackout Palestinians are facing on social media

#290
post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Religious flamewar will get you banned here. Please don't post like this, regardless of whose religion you have a problem with. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I'm confused why this post was described as "flamewar" as it's a single sentence of factually correct information.[1] The only part I'd take issue with is the use of the word "fable". Fables are succinct short stories which end in a moral lesson—and the apocalyptic Book of Revelation is neither short nor moral. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/05/14/h...

That's stretching way too far. "Apocalyptic fables" was obviously a religious putdown. People aren't allowed to smear each other's religions on HN because it leads to some of the nastiest, dumbest, and most repetitive internet threads. It should be obvious from https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html why we don't want that.
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