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The EU’s disputed system of geographical indications is taking over the planet (2017)

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Re: The EU’s disputed system of geographical indications is taking over the planet (2017)

#81

Post by newnamenewface »

TravelPiglet wrote: post #68
roelschroeven wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the thing is, what if you produce feta with the exact same ingredients and recipe in Australia? The customer gets the exact same thing, only made somewhere else. I'm all for quality standards, so that customers can now exactly what they get. But be able to use a name based on the location where something is produced, that doesn't protect the customer at all. It only protects a selected set of producers.

Why not call it something else and it would sell equally well on its own merits? You are basically given a better starting position because of the association with the name Feta, Champagne or Cognac. If Nike, the North face or some other trademark owner moves production to a different factory, you can’t continue production of the same goods even if the quality is the same. The GI and trademark name translates to extr…

Yes, but certain things are no more owned by one country or region than the world due to the dispersive nature of culture. If a Greek moves to the US and starts making feta there (say, even with the same milk fermenting bacteria), it's still feta, unless it's truly believed that national character imparts flavor. What then becomes the difference if a Greek teaches another how to make feta and they do it elsewhere? Or if someone replicates it on their own? A chef's national identity does not a good dish make

Re: The EU’s disputed system of geographical indications is taking over the planet (2017)

#82

Post by dirtyid »

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #62
pimterry wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument is that the details matter. Slightly different breeds of animal, different weather conditions, or different bacterial ecosystems affect the resulting cheese. You can make something similar to these products elsewhere, but it won't be exactly the same. Some products are famous and specific enough that customers have a right to be able to know when it's the real deal (and there are many such customers - ot…

I always feel these arguments are a bit disingenuous. You would be extremely hard-pressed to tell "authentic" Feta cheese apart from "Feta-like" cheese produced in any number of places around the world. These laws are not about protecting the consumer from inauthentic products. They're about protecting producers from competition. Exclusive ownership of famous culinary names like "Feta" and "Champagne" is valuable, an…

Maybe time for neutral WHO naming conventions to apply. Champagne is officially F.5.231 or something inane that confers little marketing benefit.

Re: The EU’s disputed system of geographical indications is taking over the planet (2017)

#83

Post by alkonaut »

rhn_mk1 wrote: post #77
alkonaut wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because I as a consumer buy more than the sum of the ingredients. I don’t want to buy a product that’s indistinguishable from the product made in the original location . I want to buy the priduct made there. One reason is that I want to support the production there, as it would be a tragedy if (say) Parmesan producers in Italy were out competed by producers in the US (again, regardless of quality or properties of the…

What would make that a tragedy? If the production of Parmesan in Italy is an important cultural phenomenon, then it can be preserved using other means, even non-economical ones.

It seems more genuine to have it remain a business/industry and not a museum.

I quite like having genuine Parmesan from the right place. I’m happy to see any amount of ham fisted protectionism to keep it that way too. So to me it’s an easy win.

Re: The EU’s disputed system of geographical indications is taking over the planet (2017)

#84

Post by alkonaut »

golemotron wrote: post #67
alkonaut wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The customer gets the exact same thing, only made somewhere else. That’s not exactly the same thing: buying one item gives support to producers in the original location while buying the other product doesn’t. I’m sure an American company (or Australian Greeks) could make a better product , but the actual physical product itself is just half the story.

Except when the 'local thing' is a local business owned and/or financed by a multinational. It's the easiest way to get around such things and it happens all the time.

It’s not the small scaledness or local ownership that’s protected. It’s the tradition of making X in the region where X is traditionally made, and some of the how it’s made. Nothing else.

Re: The EU’s disputed system of geographical indications is taking over the planet (2017)

#85

Post by dantheman »

dirtyid wrote: post #82
DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always feel these arguments are a bit disingenuous. You would be extremely hard-pressed to tell "authentic" Feta cheese apart from "Feta-like" cheese produced in any number of places around the world. These laws are not about protecting the consumer from inauthentic products. They're about protecting producers from competition. Exclusive ownership of famous culinary names like "Feta" and "Champagne" is valuable, an…

Maybe time for neutral WHO naming conventions to apply. Champagne is officially F.5.231 or something inane that confers little marketing benefit.

Just put where it's manufactured on the label - that's really all that matters.

Re: The EU’s disputed system of geographical indications is taking over the planet (2017)

#86

Post by djbebs »

Bayart wrote: post #76

>"The Old World supplied the immigrants. It seems to be very weird that you’re saying that people can’t take culture with them," You can take the culture, not the terroir , that's the point. Actual buffalo mozzarella from Campania, to take something that would be familiar to an English-speaking audience, just tastes different. Using the same process isn't enough . And that's assuming the culture survives untouched, w…

Theres no such thing as "terroir" the whole concept is bullshit intended to justify the unjustifiable.

Re: The EU’s disputed system of geographical indications is taking over the planet (2017)

#87

Post by dantheman »

ginko wrote: post #44
roelschroeven wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Champagne is not a trademark like Nike. While I think everyone should be able to produce Champagne under the name Champagne, I think only Veuve Clicquot, Bollinger, ... should be able to use those specific names. Those are trademarks like Nike.

That's the point of PDOs though. That they are essentially a form of trademark.

But it's not a trademark - it's a location.

Can beef made outside of England be called beef? Can any english name for food be used outside of England? Can french onion soup be sold outside of France?

Re: The EU’s disputed system of geographical indications is taking over the planet (2017)

#88

Post by seszett »

roelschroeven wrote: post #39
skywal_l wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if you produce exactly the same sneakers than Nike? That does not protect the customer and protects the producers too. But somehow, nobody compains about that. I don't see why brands should be more protected that countries or regions name.

Champagne is not a trademark like Nike. While I think everyone should be able to produce Champagne under the name Champagne, I think only Veuve Clicquot, Bollinger, ... should be able to use those specific names. Those are trademarks like Nike.

I still don't understand why you would call Champagne something that does not come from Champagne, can't you just call it New South Wales or Napa Valley or wherever you are making it?

How is it not misleading to call it by the name of a place that it does not come from?

Re: The EU’s disputed system of geographical indications is taking over the planet (2017)

#89

Post by dantheman »

bassman9000 wrote: post #61
roelschroeven wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the thing is, what if you produce feta with the exact same ingredients and recipe in Australia? The customer gets the exact same thing, only made somewhere else. I'm all for quality standards, so that customers can now exactly what they get. But be able to use a name based on the location where something is produced, that doesn't protect the customer at all. It only protects a selected set of producers.

But the thing is, what if you produce feta with the exact same ingredients and recipe in Australia? The customer gets the exact same thing, only made somewhere else. You can't replicate weather and other local conditions, specially on foods that require precise humidity/temp control, even air quality. So it's not the same thing. That's the whole point of geographical.

So is the weather the same year after year? does that impact it - can we say, tell producers that the weather varied from the day we established the standard so that it can't be called that this year?

Re: The EU’s disputed system of geographical indications is taking over the planet (2017)

#90

Post by makapuf »

newnamenewface wrote: post #81
TravelPiglet wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not call it something else and it would sell equally well on its own merits? You are basically given a better starting position because of the association with the name Feta, Champagne or Cognac. If Nike, the North face or some other trademark owner moves production to a different factory, you can’t continue production of the same goods even if the quality is the same. The GI and trademark name translates to extr…

Yes, but certain things are no more owned by one country or region than the world due to the dispersive nature of culture. If a Greek moves to the US and starts making feta there (say, even with the same milk fermenting bacteria), it's still feta, unless it's truly believed that national character imparts flavor. What then becomes the difference if a Greek teaches another how to make feta and they do it elsewhere? Or…

The exact same argument can be made for nike shoes.
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