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Sir, Please Step Away from the ASR-33 (2010)

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Re: Sir, Please Step Away from the ASR-33 (2010)

#81
post #77

If it's not on the keyboard, nobody is going to type it. Solutions: a) only use characters in the intersection of the top N most popular keyboard layouts b) issue programmers' keyboards with an agreed character set c) issue programmers' keypads with supplementary characters d) add on-screen supplementary keypads

What we need is a programmer orientated IME.

Re: Sir, Please Step Away from the ASR-33 (2010)

#82
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A variable named ω is no better than a list named l. Both are bad. Be explicit. Terse, but explicit.

Part of the problem here is that a variable in mathematics is a different concept from a variable in programming. Mathematicians are used to using one letter variables. Using a set of unwritten naming rules, mathematicians almost always know what concepts the variables are referring to (in a mathematical context). So, I'd say if the code is only to be maintained by mathematicians, one letter variables for mathematica…

Not a mathematician, but took enough Ph.D. level classes to be dangerous with bad proofs.

> Using a set of unwritten naming rules

Simplest being things like using upper case Greek for certain sets and lower case Greek for its elements. Or, in Statistics, using Greek letters for parameters and English equivalents for their estimates.

So, if I were programming something to do something in that realm, I would write:

    for my $ω ($Ω) {

      # ...
    
    }
where what Ω represents would be clear from the subfield of Math that is relevant to the program.

Then, of course, you get people like one of my former professors who liked to invent notation on the fly and would quickly and up cycling through Greek (π, Π), Hebrew (פ), Blackboard (ℙ), and reach out for Sanskrit (?). (Symbols used here for illustration, this was a long time ago and we didn't even know if he was correct as we had no way of checking with no intarwebs back then.)

Re: Sir, Please Step Away from the ASR-33 (2010)

#83
The Unison language stores code as a syntax tree and they're planning to support multiple alternative syntaxes for the language.

https://www.unisonweb.org

Unison’s core idea is that code is immutable and identified by its content. This lets us reimagine many aspects of how a programming language works. We simplify codebase management — Unison has no builds, no dependency conflicts, and renaming things is trivial.

Some blog posts by the author of the language describing a bit of background

https://pchiusano.github.io/2013-05-22/future-of-software.ht...

https://pchiusano.github.io/2013-09-10/type-systems-and-ux-e...

Re: Sir, Please Step Away from the ASR-33 (2010)

#84

The Unison language stores code as a syntax tree and they're planning to support multiple alternative syntaxes for the language. https://www.unisonweb.org Unison’s core idea is that code is immutable and identified by its content. This lets us reimagine many aspects of how a programming language works. We simplify codebase management — Unison has no builds, no dependency conflicts, and renaming things is trivial. Som…

Identified by its content how?

Re: Sir, Please Step Away from the ASR-33 (2010)

#85
post #84

The Unison language stores code as a syntax tree and they're planning to support multiple alternative syntaxes for the language. https://www.unisonweb.org Unison’s core idea is that code is immutable and identified by its content. This lets us reimagine many aspects of how a programming language works. We simplify codebase management — Unison has no builds, no dependency conflicts, and renaming things is trivial. Som…

Identified by its content how?

Hashing, like in Git

I guess built-in things get fixed names / hashes, and the hashes of everything else follow from that.

They need a mapping from content/hashes to human-friendly names, obviously. Not sure if they gained anything here, but they seem to think so, so might be worth checking this out.

Re: Sir, Please Step Away from the ASR-33 (2010)

#86
post #77

If it's not on the keyboard, nobody is going to type it. Solutions: a) only use characters in the intersection of the top N most popular keyboard layouts b) issue programmers' keyboards with an agreed character set c) issue programmers' keypads with supplementary characters d) add on-screen supplementary keypads

Hmm, Julia begs to differ, with most editors replacing lambda with the lambda Unicode symbol for example.

Re: Sir, Please Step Away from the ASR-33 (2010)

#87

The best thing about using only ASCII for the main syntax is that everyone can type it with their keyboard. I think the recent fad of supporting Unicode identifiers is misguided. Of course, Unicode should be permitted in string literals, but not in the code itself. *Also I don't think Go is better than modern C++, though it might be better than C++99 which was the main standard when the article was written.

But "everyone" doesn't have the same keyboard nor does everyone speak the same language. ASCII is not a universal character set and treating it as such is nothing short of cultural imperialism: "If it's good enough for us, it's good enough for everyone". Artificial limits on language and characters sets might sound simple to you but it introduces a lot of complexity for others. Unicode code solves that problem with n…

What's the purpose of supporting other character sets in a language's syntax? Good luck finding contributors from all over the world for a software written in Turkish characters. I mean for hobbyists or very special purpose cases where such a thing is really needed (writing code in Turkish or Chinese or Arabic or whatever), people can add language support for that (after all it's just a bunch of keywords). It needs some effort but not impossible. People can also design programming languages with their own special character sets. It's wild to see someone objecting writing software in ASCII because of diversity/cultural issues. Really wild!

Re: Sir, Please Step Away from the ASR-33 (2010)

#89
post #27

This will work once we have keycaps with e-ink or similar technology and this will be super cheap for everyone. Then we all will have keyboards with infinite number of characters and new chapter of typing will begin.

Doesn't something like that already exist: Lenovo's Yoga Book C930? It had 2 screens, with one being an e-Ink keyboard. Very useful tech.

Re: Sir, Please Step Away from the ASR-33 (2010)

#90
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Identified by its content how?

Hashing, like in Git I guess built-in things get fixed names / hashes, and the hashes of everything else follow from that. They need a mapping from content/hashes to human-friendly names, obviously. Not sure if they gained anything here, but they seem to think so, so might be worth checking this out.

I don't know why we keep reinventing this distribution model and failing at it, then trying again.

Bugfixing and identity matter.

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