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The EU’s disputed system of geographical indications is taking over the planet (2017)

politico.eu

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Re: The EU’s disputed system of geographical indications is taking over the planet (2017)

#51

Post by ginko »

anoncake wrote: post #35
dopidopHN wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cybernetic again, cheese is more than the sum of its part. I’m only half joking. Plus, for some recipe the food that the cow ate and the altitude do make a difference in the output. I’m all for other places making cheese and whatnot. But when you buy the said cheese to find the exact taste you know since childhood, and that you miss in the exotic land you are living as a adult… You can be picky on the product. I want…

You ignored > but let's assume that you can make sheep milk in Australia that has the same properties as Greek sheep milk.

As a customer, why would I assume this? It's one thing for an Australian cheese maker to write 'feta' on their product because they think it's similar enough to the Greek cheese and another of it actually being similar.

As a customer the only way to find out would be to buy it and try it out. I don't want to have to go through the fine print on the packaging when all I want is some feta cheese for my greek salad.

For the record, I usually buy Turkish sheep's milk cheese because I like it better than feta cheese, but I very much prefer that those are clearly labelled differently so I can tell them apart.

Re: The EU’s disputed system of geographical indications is taking over the planet (2017)

#53

Post by unishark »

alkonaut wrote: post #46
jkldotio wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you've conflated regional with generic, a distinction I pointed out first, without any worked reasoning at all. People generally lose their trademarks quickly if they don't enforce them and allow them to go into the language https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_generic_and_generici... I honestly don't see you as providing a real argument from first principles.

I used Champagne as an example, but the same applies to Parmesan, Feta and Västerbotten which are reginal by tradition in one case and by name in two. What’s important to me as a consumer is I want to support the producers of the original region, not much else.

But the poster you challenged was specifically complaining about a generic product name that was not a place name. Because it opens Pandora's box in terms of every generic food name being reclaimed by the place it originated.

The list of place names which are also products, and the rhetorical ease of defending their protection for such cases, does not make the argument about protecting local generic names as well, precisely because it is not as easy to defend such names. What criterion would you use? The degree of feel-good small-town credentials of the claimant?

Re: The EU’s disputed system of geographical indications is taking over the planet (2017)

#54

Post by alkonaut »

unishark wrote: post #53
alkonaut wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used Champagne as an example, but the same applies to Parmesan, Feta and Västerbotten which are reginal by tradition in one case and by name in two. What’s important to me as a consumer is I want to support the producers of the original region, not much else.

But the poster you challenged was specifically complaining about a generic product name that was not a place name. Because it opens Pandora's box in terms of every generic food name being reclaimed by the place it originated. The list of place names which are also products, and the rhetorical ease of defending their protection for such cases, does not make the argument about protecting local generic names as well, pr…

I agree there may be a subtle difference between “actually geographic” and “traditionally regional but generic” but I don’t think it’s actually important. That Pandora’s box seems well worth opening.

If a product was made exclusively in a region for some amount of time (say a few hundred years, and nowhere else) then I think that’s a pretty strong case for protecting that tradition in the region whether the produce bears that name or not.

Re: The EU’s disputed system of geographical indications is taking over the planet (2017)

#55

Post by despera »

Image caption triggered my greek cheese-seller's nerves. Those are not "slabs of feta cheese" shown but mizithra or anthotyro.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthotyros

Now for the important part. Region locking is completely idiotic. If i was living abroad, i wouldn't dare to buy, for example, imported greek feta. White cheese is not the kind that matures. They are very delicate has to stay fresh. Surely there must be standards of HOW a certain kind of cheese is made but not where.

Re: The EU’s disputed system of geographical indications is taking over the planet (2017)

#57

Post by unishark »

alkonaut wrote: post #54
unishark wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the poster you challenged was specifically complaining about a generic product name that was not a place name. Because it opens Pandora's box in terms of every generic food name being reclaimed by the place it originated. The list of place names which are also products, and the rhetorical ease of defending their protection for such cases, does not make the argument about protecting local generic names as well, pr…

I agree there may be a subtle difference between “actually geographic” and “traditionally regional but generic” but I don’t think it’s actually important. That Pandora’s box seems well worth opening. If a product was made exclusively in a region for some amount of time (say a few hundred years, and nowhere else) then I think that’s a pretty strong case for protecting that tradition in the region whether the produce b…

Seems like that would still include all foods that have been around a long time in old countries. Such as sushi for Japan.

Re: The EU’s disputed system of geographical indications is taking over the planet (2017)

#59

Post by alkonaut »

unishark wrote: post #57
alkonaut wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree there may be a subtle difference between “actually geographic” and “traditionally regional but generic” but I don’t think it’s actually important. That Pandora’s box seems well worth opening. If a product was made exclusively in a region for some amount of time (say a few hundred years, and nowhere else) then I think that’s a pretty strong case for protecting that tradition in the region whether the produce b…

Seems like that would still include all foods that have been around a long time in old countries. Such as sushi for Japan.

Possibly, but “dishes” and “exportable products” seem a bit different from an industrial perspective. I don’t think dishes will ever be up for discussion in this context.

Re: The EU’s disputed system of geographical indications is taking over the planet (2017)

#60

Post by dmitriid »

tchalla wrote: post #27
dmitriid wrote: post #15

I'm from Moldova, and Moldovan alcohol producers were hit by this. Since the Soviet times lots of things like cognac, champagne, cahors, port wine and so on were produced in Moldova often using traditional recipes. And then association with EU happened. Ooops, can't use those names anymore, you must devise new names for what is essentially the same exact product.

Moldova has 5 wines and 1 spirit protected under the GI status. https://www.tmdn.org/giview/gi/EUGI00209900380 https://www.tmdn.org/giview/gi/EUGI00209900381 https://www.tmdn.org/giview/gi/EUGI00209900382 https://www.tmdn.org/giview/gi/EUGI00209900383 https://www.tmdn.org/giview/gi/EUGI00209900383 https://www.tmdn.org/giview/gi/EUGI00209900385

1. So what?

Some of those "protected wines" didn't even exist before the agreement and no one cares if they are protected, or not.

This is basically a "in exchange of a few thousand names [1] that you can never use even if you produce an identical product, we will protect some names many of which not even you care about, or weren't even ever used before this agreement".

2. That "protected spirit"? That's the new invented name for cognac.

As wikipedia puts it [2], emphasis mine:

=== start quote ===

Divin - represents the name, patented in the Republic of Moldova, of the country's brandy, produced in conformity with the classic technology of cognac production.

=== end quote ===

So, it's produced like cognac, looks like cognac, has the same ingredients as cognac, smells like cognac, tastes like cognac, but don't you dare call it cognac, invent a new non-sensical name to call it something else but cognac.

The same goes for dozens of other names. And we're talking only about wine and spirits. Imagine if no country could call whisky, well, whisky, and each country had to invent their own name for it.

[1] Annex XXX-C https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?qid=15828875... and Annex XXX-D https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?qid=15828875...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldovan_wine#Divin

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