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YouTube takes down Xinjiang videos, forcing rights group to seek alternative

reuters.com

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Re: YouTube takes down Xinjiang videos, forcing rights group to seek alternative

#211

Post by dang »

2939223 wrote: post #154
jeswin wrote: post #134

I doubt this was YouTube policy, or that it was driven from the top. If it was, we'd have seen a few leaks. This is more likely mass reporting of such content (perhaps organized by State apparatus), exploiting the automated flagging algorithm. In any case, I hope Google takes a stand now.

It doesn't require top-down capitulation to the CCP. Much cheaper to infiltrate from the bottom-up. How heavily vetted are those filling the ranks of YouTube's Community Standards teams?

Since it looks like you've created this account just do to political battle on HN, I'm banning it. We ban such accounts because they're not compatible with the mandate of the site. No, it has nothing to do with which particular politics or ideology you're battling for...we really don't care. We just want to have an internet forum that doesn't destroy itself.

Please don't create accounts to break HN's guidelines with.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: YouTube takes down Xinjiang videos, forcing rights group to seek alternative

#212

Post by ByteJockey »

vgaldikas wrote: post #155
aliyfarah wrote: post #131

>Following inquiries from Reuters as to why the channel was removed, YouTube restored it on June 18, explaining that it had received multiple so-called 'strikes' for videos which contained people holding up ID cards to prove they were related to the missing, violating a YouTube policy which prohibits personally identifiable information from appearing in its content >YouTube asked Atajurt to blur the IDs. But Atajurt…

Yeah but what's the issue of posting your own PII? I mean I understand that probably you shouldn't, for various reasons. And posting someone else's PII should absolutely be banned. But if I want to post my ID online, what harm can I make to anyone else?

The only concern I can think of would be holding up someone else's id/a fake id and getting that person arrested by the CCP.

It's closer to swatting than PII leakage, but it's the only thing I can come up with.

Re: YouTube takes down Xinjiang videos, forcing rights group to seek alternative

#213

Post by tablespoon »

justicezyx wrote: post #194
commoner wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Xinjiang is indeed highly locked down, and foreign reporters are not allowed to enter most parts of the region unless they are producing content that aligns with the Chinese government's message. Daniel Dumbrill is absolutely not a credible source. Edit: Corrected from "the region" to "most parts of the region". From 2018: > Transportation presents significant obstacles, too. Roughly the size of Alaska, Xinjiang enco…

This current situation is getting worse and worse. Anyone commenting on Xinjiang here never get any truth themselves... Each time I recommend them to watch YT videos from non main-stream media, no one reply back with what they found out... And apparently everyone is happy to bash the credit of mainstream media, except for China/XInjiang, it's like suddenly a bunch of guys never set foot in Xinjiang, start to trusting…

> Each time I recommend them to watch YT videos from non main-stream media, no one reply back with what they found out...

Youtube videos from randos aren't very good sources, period, especially on topics like this. I mean, that guy seems like laowhy86's mirror universe twin.

> And apparently everyone is happy to bash the credit of mainstream media, except for China/XInjiang, it's like suddenly a bunch of guys never set foot in Xinjiang, start to trusting another bunch of guys also never set foot in Xinjiang, and claim that they are good friends all along...

Even the people who bash the MSM rely on it for pretty much all of their information about the outside world.

Also, you put far too much weight on "setting foot" somewhere. For instance, would taking a regime-lead guided tour of North Korea (like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24R8JObNNQ4) really help anyone understand North Korea at all? It's probably the only way to "set foot" there as a foreigner. The answer is no. You'd get much better understanding reviewing documents (both officially distributed and otherwise), interviewing defectors, and maybe even looking at satellite photos. The highly produced tour would be superfluous (and in this case, potentially dangerous).

Re: YouTube takes down Xinjiang videos, forcing rights group to seek alternative

#215

Post by kderbyma »

joelwat wrote: post #214

Google has come a long way since their "Don't be evil" days. Google is evil now. They have no morals anymore. They don't care about people. Only money, which is all too common.

I have made it my goal to stop using Google services as much as possible. I will never buy another Google product.

they have lost my trust completely.

Re: YouTube takes down Xinjiang videos, forcing rights group to seek alternative

#216

Post by callmejoe »

_-david-_ wrote: post #147
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #31

We're back at the platform vs. publisher debate... I think this should be a either-or thing, that every webpage chooses. Then, you're either a platform, and can only remove directly illegal stuff (or when told by the courts to do so), or a publisher, decide what content you publish and what you remove, and then carry the full responsibility for that content. The current situation, where pages like youtube can act as…

I am in general agreement with you, but I think there should be a way for internet platforms to ban certain content. YouTube shouldn't be required to host porn (or anything too raunchy) just because it is a platform. This would almost certainly lead to young kids seeing porn. I know YouTube has age restriction videos but a parent could easily be signed in to their account which allows NSFW material and the next thing…

would that not be the parent's responsibility then?

this argument reeks of "but think of the children" fallacy.

Re: YouTube takes down Xinjiang videos, forcing rights group to seek alternative

#217

Post by elihu »

toomanyrichies wrote: post #80

Honest question- what is Google's exposure here? Both Youtube and Google (Youtube's parent company) are blocked in China; those revenue streams were cut off a long time ago. What does Google have to lose by letting Youtube keep the videos up? I'm sure the exposure exists; I recognize that Googlers aren't stupid. I honestly am just curious what that risk is. Having lived in Shanghai for 5 years, I don't see China reve…

Maybe they just think it's more effort than it's worth to host controversial content. If people file complaints about the videos, they'll have to assign someone to determine if the content is credible, and have to deal with the risk of not censoring some videos that should be censored, or censoring some videos that shouldn't be censored.

The low-effort option is to just shut it all down and be opaque and hand-wavy about the reasons. Which is to say that they're betting that few people actually care enough about this stuff enough that it would cost them revenue.

Re: YouTube takes down Xinjiang videos, forcing rights group to seek alternative

#218

Post by __turbobrew__ »

_-david-_ wrote: post #147
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #31

We're back at the platform vs. publisher debate... I think this should be a either-or thing, that every webpage chooses. Then, you're either a platform, and can only remove directly illegal stuff (or when told by the courts to do so), or a publisher, decide what content you publish and what you remove, and then carry the full responsibility for that content. The current situation, where pages like youtube can act as…

I am in general agreement with you, but I think there should be a way for internet platforms to ban certain content. YouTube shouldn't be required to host porn (or anything too raunchy) just because it is a platform. This would almost certainly lead to young kids seeing porn. I know YouTube has age restriction videos but a parent could easily be signed in to their account which allows NSFW material and the next thing…

Maybe “platforms” should be beholden to “public square standards”. You can’t perform sexual conduct in public so it seems reasonable to disallow porn from a publicly accessible digital platform.

Re: YouTube takes down Xinjiang videos, forcing rights group to seek alternative

#219

Post by ElViajero »

jude- wrote: post #180
wyuenho wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chinese companies buy ads outside of China you know. Chinese companies are known to pull ads at the stroke of a pen from the United Front Work Department.

They should just go ahead and pull their ads, then, and see what happens. Call their bluff.

The director that makes that move is going to be fired faster than China start to think to go back to normal.

The problem from the start is the trade between USA (& Europe) and China is unbalanced. The USA is way more dependent to China than the other way around.

This was the same mistake that the USA did with Japan. Move production there, think that they are stupid and never have any control over the manufacturing.

Now it is obvious that China is not stupid, but it is too late and there is too many personal interests on growing in China. Many CEOs bonuses depend on what happens in China, meanwhile their business in the USA is guaranteed by monopolies and oligopolies. So, why bother about making USA citizens happy if they have not a choice?

This is easy to solve with political will. Instead of antagonizing China, the solution is to increase USA education, infrastructure and be able again to produce what nowadays can only be produced in China.

> Call their bluff.

tldr; China will call Google's bluff, not the other way around.

Re: YouTube takes down Xinjiang videos, forcing rights group to seek alternative

#220

Post by mannerheim »

justicezyx wrote: post #96
hnick wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard China encourages/allows/supports some creators on YouTube for cultural export too. I mean if YouTube is 'banned' then someone like Dianxi Xiaoge with 7.5 million subscribers isn't exactly under the radar if they wanted to enforce their rules.

> China encourages/allows/supports I don't know any such concrete measures to support some creators. I do see that CCP wants to tell a more positive side of China on all sorts of media platforms. That in itself is pretty reasonable. I mean, certainly no other political group are going to say good things about China anyway.

No, it's wholly unreasonable to allow China to use these platforms to disseminate propaganda when they ban them in their own country. The federal government should ban Chinese propagandists from YouTube, the New York Times, etc. unless China unblocks these sites.
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