YouTube takes down Xinjiang videos, forcing rights group to seek alternative • Hacker News Board

Re: YouTube takes down Xinjiang videos, forcing rights group to seek alternative

#191

Post by justicezyx » Sun, Jun 27, 2021, 4:37 AM UTC

tablespoon wrote: post #141

justicezyx wrote: post #66

I have issue with the laziness of the report regarding the Xinjiang genocide reporting. The whole article is centered on this statement: """ where UN experts and rights groups estimate over a million people have been detained in recent years. """ The UN experts and right groups are not named. But I assume it was Adrian Zenz who was throughly discredited in [1] and the so-called evidences are from satalie images analy…

Just to echo this dead comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27647592 > But I assume it was Adrian Zenz who was throughly discredited in [1] Zenz isn't discredited, it's just the PRC propaganda apparatus is trying its hardest to smear him as part of their coverup. Also thegrayzone.com is so unreliable that it was banned from Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Per... . > Grayzo…

> Why would that matter? All of our authorities on Ancient Rome never set foot in the Roman Empire.

LMAO

What kind of logic is this?

Roman expert can look at fossils, an expert on genocide research has no fossils, how can one claim that without ever set foot on the genocide site...

Does China automatically triggered some kind of emotional outburst that shut down reasoning instantly?...

Re: YouTube takes down Xinjiang videos, forcing rights group to seek alternative

#192

Post by commoner » Sun, Jun 27, 2021, 4:40 AM UTC

tablespoon wrote: post #190

commoner wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Xinjiang is indeed highly locked down, and foreign reporters are not allowed to enter most parts of the region unless they are producing content that aligns with the Chinese government's message. Daniel Dumbrill is absolutely not a credible source. Edit: Corrected from "the region" to "most parts of the region". From 2018: > Transportation presents significant obstacles, too. Roughly the size of Alaska, Xinjiang enco…

> Xinjiang is indeed highly locked down, and foreign reporters are not allowed to enter the region unless they are producing content that aligns with the Chinese government's message. I don't think it's locked down (for non-covid reasons), because I linked an account of the experiences of an NY Times journalist that went there. However, it's definitely true that reporters who aren't there to further the government's…

Let me clarify what I meant by "locked down". The border situation at Xinjiang is exceptionally invasive. The following investigation is from 2019:

> Foreigners crossing certain Chinese borders into the Xinjiang region, where authorities are conducting a massive campaign of surveillance and oppression against the local Muslim population, are being forced to install a piece of malware on their phones that gives all of their text messages as well as other pieces of data to the authorities, a collaboration by Motherboard, Süddeutsche Zeitung, the Guardian, the New York Times, and the German public broadcaster NDR has found.

> The Android malware, which is installed by a border guard when they physically seize the phone, also scans the tourist or traveller's device for a specific set of files, according to multiple expert analyses of the software. The files authorities are looking for include Islamic extremist content, but also innocuous Islamic material, academic books on Islam by leading researchers, and even music from a Japanese metal band.

> In no way is the downloading of tourists’ text messages and other mobile phone data comparable to the treatment of the Uighur population in Xinjiang, who live under the constant gaze of facial recognition systems, CCTV, and physical searches. Last week, VICE News published an undercover documentary detailing some of the human rights abuses and surveillance against the Uighur population. But the malware news shows that the Chinese government’s aggressive style of policing and surveillance in the Xinjiang region has extended to foreigners, too.

> (Update: after the publication of this piece, multiple antivirus firms updated their products to flag the app as malware).

https://www.vice.com/en/article/7xgame/at-chinese-border-tou...

Re: YouTube takes down Xinjiang videos, forcing rights group to seek alternative

#193

Post by mkolodny » Sun, Jun 27, 2021, 4:41 AM UTC

If you work at YouTube/Google, and you have the opportunity to do something about this, I hope that you get those videos back up on YouTube. The Uighur people need our help. That's one way you can help them.

Re: YouTube takes down Xinjiang videos, forcing rights group to seek alternative

#194

Post by justicezyx » Sun, Jun 27, 2021, 4:41 AM UTC

commoner wrote: post #185

tablespoon wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Daniel Dunbrill This guy? https://www.scmp.com/news/china/politics/article/3127611/chi... : > Dumbrill’s YouTube channel has 140,000 subscribers while his videos, commentaries and interviews – on topics such as the Hong Kong protests – have previously appeared on CGTN. His long track record of providing fodder for Chinese state media to throw at the West has earned him special privileges not accorded to veteran for…

Xinjiang is indeed highly locked down, and foreign reporters are not allowed to enter most parts of the region unless they are producing content that aligns with the Chinese government's message. Daniel Dumbrill is absolutely not a credible source. Edit: Corrected from "the region" to "most parts of the region". From 2018: > Transportation presents significant obstacles, too. Roughly the size of Alaska, Xinjiang enco…

This current situation is getting worse and worse.

Anyone commenting on Xinjiang here never get any truth themselves...

Each time I recommend them to watch YT videos from non main-stream media, no one reply back with what they found out...

And apparently everyone is happy to bash the credit of mainstream media, except for China/XInjiang, it's like suddenly a bunch of guys never set foot in Xinjiang, start to trusting another bunch of guys also never set foot in Xinjiang, and claim that they are good friends all along...

Ridiculous!

Re: YouTube takes down Xinjiang videos, forcing rights group to seek alternative

#195

Post by illuminati1911 » Sun, Jun 27, 2021, 4:45 AM UTC

toomanyrichies wrote: post #80

Honest question- what is Google's exposure here? Both Youtube and Google (Youtube's parent company) are blocked in China; those revenue streams were cut off a long time ago. What does Google have to lose by letting Youtube keep the videos up? I'm sure the exposure exists; I recognize that Googlers aren't stupid. I honestly am just curious what that risk is. Having lived in Shanghai for 5 years, I don't see China reve…

Google is actually operating in mainland China. They have offices here (Engineering, Sales etc.) in Shanghai and AFAIK they are involved in some advertisement business. They also organize events here every once in a while.

Re: YouTube takes down Xinjiang videos, forcing rights group to seek alternative

#196

Post by tablespoon » Sun, Jun 27, 2021, 4:47 AM UTC

gre wrote: post #181

tablespoon wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can you link some more sources about the gray zone? Being banned from Wikipedia just makes sense because they are a blog and not a primary source. IIRC, it was mainly banned because "there is consensus that The Grayzone publishes false or fabricated information" (as the summary states). I believe this was one of the examples: https://www.thedailybeast.com/in-nicaragua-torture-is-used-t... (Grayzone presenting the f…

The second article is ten years old and reads like a "he said/she said" and the payoff is pretty underwhelming. The political position of the grayzone is anti-imperialist which is an insightful way to view the US and its actions in central and south america for the past few decades. I am having trouble following the Nicaragua article as it is heavy on details. I know that one of the grayzone reporters actually lives…

> The political position of the grayzone is anti-imperialist which is an insightful way to view the US and its actions in central and south america for the past few decades.

These articles might be more up your alley:

https://www.dsausa.org/democratic-left/no-to-chinese-authori...

https://newpol.org/against-the-grayzone-slanders/

https://newpol.org/on-gutter-journalism-and-purported-anti-i...

Edit: here's another good (but dead) sibling comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27648773.

seppin, if you're reading this, you're shadowbanned and very few people will be able to read your stuff.

Re: YouTube takes down Xinjiang videos, forcing rights group to seek alternative

#197

Post by Aunche » Sun, Jun 27, 2021, 4:53 AM UTC

strangeattractr wrote: post #170

Aunche wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hosting those videos is hardly some act of social conscience, why would they be owed praise in addition to the advertising revenues they receive. If you treat them as neutral pursuers of profit for doing something "good", then, it's only fair to treat them as neutral pursuers of profit when they do something "evil". Let me remind that that early on, internet companies were all almost completely pro-free speech. It'…

Yes exactly, they are pursuers of profit. When they host the videos it merely aligns with their profit motives. When they block something it is because it interferes with their profit motives. I have no issue with this whatsoever, it's what I expect. I'm curious how this negates the criticism of them rather than enhances the case for it? We cannot trust Google to behave in the public interest (information about human…

> We cannot trust Google to behave in the public interest (information about human rights abuses qualifies in my mind) when it conflicts with their own interests. Hence people's dismay over the amount of control they wield over the distribution of information.

Assuming that people do want some level of censorship, profit motive actually ends up being the most fair. If enough people are angry about this, Google will change their policy. Social media treat the control they have on information as more of a burden than an asset, as it should be. They would love to have an authoritative doctrine or committee that they can point their fingers to when someone disagrees with their decision of whether or not to censor something. In fact, Facebook spent $130 million dollars establishing a content "supreme court" in an attempt to do that. However, people are naturally even more skeptical of anyone who wants the responsibility of moderating billions of hours of content.

> Do you think a news org that wiped coverage of Uighur repression from its site to protect its business in China wouldn't face similar outrage?

I don't think this is a fair comparison. This describes removing a dozen videos that showed IDs and asked them to blur out. News organizations also have very strict rules on what journalists can publish, which many would consider to be arbitrary. Pulling a pro-Uighur article for not following those rules does not deserve outrage either.

Re: YouTube takes down Xinjiang videos, forcing rights group to seek alternative

#198

Post by n_ary » Sun, Jun 27, 2021, 4:55 AM UTC

This is really sad. Google wants in on China, so these kinds of things build "good will"(??) for Google with China government.

However, it is most unfortunate for the video authors as most alternatives are practically useless(for intent):

- filled with spam, fake news, fluff[1]

- no audience[2]

- no moderation[3]

[1] is due to [3] as moderation is tough. The important videos need [2] to have maximum outreach, but due to [1], they get mixed up and dismissed as other conspiracy theories posted on most alternatives that YT kicked out. Building a proper audience for alternatives is tough, as there is no momentum.

We live in a dystopia already, to average joe, internet is FB, Google, TikTok(?), Instagram, Twitter, Whatsapp, Skype, Chrome and those few government websites they need to fill forms now and then. The monopoly capital has been built, people are now stuck. We have plenty great alternatives, but first mover's momentum is of epic proportions.

[Edit: Found contents on Odysee]

Re: YouTube takes down Xinjiang videos, forcing rights group to seek alternative

#199

Post by mylons » Sun, Jun 27, 2021, 4:56 AM UTC

jeswin wrote: post #134

I doubt this was YouTube policy, or that it was driven from the top. If it was, we'd have seen a few leaks. This is more likely mass reporting of such content (perhaps organized by State apparatus), exploiting the automated flagging algorithm. In any case, I hope Google takes a stand now.

how is invoking “the algorithm,” a defense? we want algorithmic censors, now?

Re: YouTube takes down Xinjiang videos, forcing rights group to seek alternative

#200

Post by mylons » Sun, Jun 27, 2021, 4:57 AM UTC

2939223 wrote: post #154

jeswin wrote: post #134

I doubt this was YouTube policy, or that it was driven from the top. If it was, we'd have seen a few leaks. This is more likely mass reporting of such content (perhaps organized by State apparatus), exploiting the automated flagging algorithm. In any case, I hope Google takes a stand now.

It doesn't require top-down capitulation to the CCP. Much cheaper to infiltrate from the bottom-up. How heavily vetted are those filling the ranks of YouTube's Community Standards teams?

i witnessed the hiring of CCP sympathizers at Twitch. it’s certainly happening at youtube