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The blackout Palestinians are facing on social media

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Re: The blackout Palestinians are facing on social media

#171

Post by poisonarena »

werber wrote: post #20

As an American Jew who grew up with a distorted and racist world view in regard to Palestine this just feels like history repeating itself. The troubles that face Israelis have always been amplified over those of Palestinians in my experience. That control of the narrative led me to be actively racist for most of my life while thinking I was not and also morally superior. This kind of censorship has a body count, and…

As an Israeli who lives in the Southern part of Israel, and who lived here during the Second Intifada, I think you would change your mind if you walked a mile in my shoes.

I think the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has been absorbed by social justice movements in the USA and people apply it to the BLM movement. It just does not fit the same narrative no badly how much Americans and Europeans want it to, but it is terribly convenient to pretend and act as though it is.

Re: The blackout Palestinians are facing on social media

#172

Post by threatofrain »

wolverine876 wrote: post #140
g8oz wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The opinions of Americans in particular on this issue are very relevant. The U.S provides Israel with a diplomatic, military and financial blank check. Many of the most aggressive elements of the settler movement that makes life so difficult for Palestinians in East Jerusalem and the West Bank are funded by American non-profit groups like the Central Fund of Israel. In addition some 60,000 ideologically driven Americ…

As I posted eleswhere, note that American Christian Evangelicals support Israel's right-wing policies much more strongly than American Jews, who are mostly liberal and Democrats. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=evangelical+support+for+israel+sit...

You should link directly to the sources you curate, rather than just linking a duckduckgo search.

Re: The blackout Palestinians are facing on social media

#173

Post by guerrilla »

wolverine876 wrote: post #131
BeFlatXIII wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps they ought to set up their constitution to have a military pledged to the maintenance of a purely secular state that will overthrow any overtly religious government, no matter the electoral margins they earned when getting installed.

> a military pledged to the maintenance of a purely secular state that will overthrow any overtly religious government That's an idea with a very bad history and no political legitimacy: What grounds does a general have to tell their neighbors what to do? Nobody voted for them. What stops the general from arbitrarily wielding that power? Why vest that power in the military? A civilian institution could make the decis…

I think you're being naive because the military always has that power, regardless of what people want to pretend. What would make it legitmate is that the people agreed to it ahead of time.

Re: The blackout Palestinians are facing on social media

#174

Post by HKH2 »

wolverine876 wrote: post #139
BeFlatXIII wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are only so many hours in a day. This should be true at the community level, but an individual passionately caring about all of those injustices at once will end up spamming social media with advocacy because there is not enough time to pick any one to do something with greater impact.

> n individual passionately caring about all of those injustices at once will end up spamming social media with advocacy because there is not enough time to pick any one to do something with greater impact One solution, a well-established one, is to focus on universal human rights. The rising tide will lift all boats. Also, caring does not necessarily mean action. I do have limited time, but I've heard the above used…

When you can't even get major powers on board with universal human rights, what hope have you of going after others? They seem about as effective as the UN itself.

Re: The blackout Palestinians are facing on social media

#175

Post by threatofrain »

rayiner wrote: post #75
azifali wrote: post #21

As a progressive Muslim - I believe both Israel and Palestine have the right to exist, and thrive. Unfortunately, it looks like the state of Israel has now become a needless oppressor and are content building an apartheid state without learning from the past.

As a conservative former Muslim: As long as Palestinians chant “from the river to the sea” and tolerate Hamas any talk about a two state solution is a joke. By not rejecting Hamas, Palestinians make themselves a military problem rather than a civil rights issue. You don’t give civil rights to people who are military threat. This isn’t a point about morality, but the simple reality of nations protecting themselves. If…

It would be hard for a moderate, compromising government to emerge in this atmosphere where the big guns have already come out.

Re: The blackout Palestinians are facing on social media

#176

Post by sangnoir »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #153
Ozzie_osman wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sad part is that you can get called an anti-Semite (or self-hating Jew) for expressing any sort of solidarity with Palestinians. The sadder part is that actual anti-Semites then jump in and use that situation to further their agenda.

I’ve not run into this very much. I’ve had very good luck advocating against antisemitism while also advocating against Israeli settlement policies. I think by advocating against antisemitism I demonstrate that I’m actually committed to justice. It seems when people are accused of antisemitism they are often not only criticizing settlement policies but also advocating for the destruction of Israel and are generally s…

There's another contingent that's quick to label any criticism leveled against the Israeli government as anti-semitism, which in itself is an antisemitic trope (which insinuates that all Jewish people, including the Jewish diaspora, and the country/government of Israel are inseparable)

Re: The blackout Palestinians are facing on social media

#177

Post by guerrilla »

edgyquant wrote: post #169
azifali wrote: post #21

As a progressive Muslim - I believe both Israel and Palestine have the right to exist, and thrive. Unfortunately, it looks like the state of Israel has now become a needless oppressor and are content building an apartheid state without learning from the past.

Can we stop throwing around the word apartheid? Just because something is bad, or racist, doesn’t make it apartheid. That is descriptive of an extremely specific economic state that existed in the “dual” economies of South Africa after decolonization. What Israel is doing is not similar to Apartheid.

I think you'll find that the generalized definition does apply[1] and that Human Rights Watch naturally agrees [2]. In fact it will apply to any ethnostate and Israel does define itself as an ethnostate for Jews.

1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apartheid_(crime)

2. https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/isra...

Re: The blackout Palestinians are facing on social media

#178

Post by istjohn »

rayiner wrote: post #65
DoctorNick wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans are more prone to this kind of thing because they're already used to overriding settler-colonial propaganda influencing their mindset; Zionist propaganda is just another flavor.

That’s a hilarious assertion. One of the things we found puzzling when we moved here was why Americans spent so much time in school studying all the bad things the country did. Totally bizarre to us, coming from Asia.

Why wouldn't we want to learn from our mistakes? Ignoring past mistakes is a recipe to repeat them.

German students are taught about the Holocaust for the same reason.

Re: The blackout Palestinians are facing on social media

#179

Post by metta2uall »

let_me_ask_this wrote: post #116
rayiner wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a conservative former Muslim: As long as Palestinians chant “from the river to the sea” and tolerate Hamas any talk about a two state solution is a joke. By not rejecting Hamas, Palestinians make themselves a military problem rather than a civil rights issue. You don’t give civil rights to people who are military threat. This isn’t a point about morality, but the simple reality of nations protecting themselves. If…

The problem with peaceful protest is that it can only work if there is very strong international pressure to stop Israel, because they most definitely won't stop by themselves. The problem with expecting any international pressure, is that America vetos any such event, and Israel work really hard to make sure they always have the backing of all the countries that matter. In any case, Hamas's existence is completely o…

All Palestinian violence, especially by Hamas, is used very effectively to gain international sympathy for Israel and to excuse violent & unjust policies.

A much greater level of non-violence from the Palestinian side would result in far stronger international pressure, and also domestic American pressure.

Re: The blackout Palestinians are facing on social media

#180

Post by poisonarena »

werber wrote: post #164
bkirkby wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you share with us the most egregious example of a war crime committed by Israel that caused you to change your view? Please be specific about the laws, actions, and outcomes that resulted in the crime.

Most recently, bombing the offices of multiple news outlets during a conflict comes to mind. But what made me change my mind was actively seeking out Palestinians to talk to one on one after a close friend told me I was racist. This isn’t particularly profound or anything, but a now very close friend of mine talked to me about how she could barely see her family in Palestine and that I could get a free trip and citiz…

How do you feel about Gaza launching 4000+ rockets at Israeli population centers indiscriminately ?
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