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CRISPR gene-editing breakthrough opens door to treating broad array of diseases

npr.org

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Re: CRISPR gene-editing breakthrough opens door to treating broad array of diseases

#141
post #43

>Doctors infused billions of microscopic structures known as nanoparticles carrying genetic instructions for the CRISPR gene-editor into four patients in London and two in New Zealand. The nanoparticles were absorbed by their livers, where they unleashed armies of CRISPR gene-editors. The CRISPR editor honed in on the target gene in the liver and sliced it, disabling production of the destructive protein. this is one…

Note that the liver is perhaps the easiest target since it filters the blood. See: https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2021/05/20/cr...

I expected we would be doing this using viruses, and there are viruses targeting various tissues/organs. The nanites though are just really Star Trek cool.

Re: CRISPR gene-editing breakthrough opens door to treating broad array of diseases

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but the CRISPR engine is passed on to offspring which raises massive ethical questions. As I understand it (and hopefully I'm not way off base here) there is a technique that creates a "gene drive" which is kinda like an SDK that is inserted into the patients genome which improves the efficacy of CRISPR. This code finds its way into the gametes which is then passed on to children. The children did not ask for thi…

Not if you're 65 it doesn't...

Excellent point!

Re: CRISPR gene-editing breakthrough opens door to treating broad array of diseases

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are correct. Unchecked climate change will send the wealthy and middle classes North. If History is any indicator, they will close the borders of their regions as tightly as possible and commit a pitance to "humanitarian aid" leaving the poor piling up in refugee camps on their borders. We have the examples of the U.S. border, Australia's camps on Naru, the various permeant refugee camps spread across the…

Animals are already migrating to more northerly climes as recent articles on Svalbard attest.* What prevents people from doing the same is mostly international borders, politics and money. Before we had international borders, plenty of humans lived migratory lives as well. * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27479739

Absolutely. Even recorded history is full of migrations of large groups of people (anglo-saxons, repeated migrations out of the Asian steppe, mass migrations of the Native Americans after European arrival, etc). If we could reach high enough state of moral development we might even come to see migration as a human right. Though I believe impending material poverty will make that unlikely.

Re: CRISPR gene-editing breakthrough opens door to treating broad array of diseases

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Animals are already migrating to more northerly climes as recent articles on Svalbard attest.* What prevents people from doing the same is mostly international borders, politics and money. Before we had international borders, plenty of humans lived migratory lives as well. * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27479739

Absolutely. Even recorded history is full of migrations of large groups of people (anglo-saxons, repeated migrations out of the Asian steppe, mass migrations of the Native Americans after European arrival, etc). If we could reach high enough state of moral development we might even come to see migration as a human right. Though I believe impending material poverty will make that unlikely.

In spite of my own personal challenges, I'm actually more hopeful than many people seem to be. (Edit: at least for humanity. Not necessarily for myself.)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22028732

Re: CRISPR gene-editing breakthrough opens door to treating broad array of diseases

#145
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is the line of reasoning that leads to banning abortions*. People have a right to alter their bodies. EDIT: and preventing young women from choosing sterilization.

How do you reason that people have the (presumably absolute) right to alter than bodies however they please? How do you justify that claim? It makes very specific assumptions which are very problematic. For example, do you have the right to lobotomize a perfectly healthy brain? It is immoral? Can you say you have the right to do something immoral? How about altering your uterus during pregnancy to prevent nutrients f…

> "How do you reason that people have the (presumably absolute) right to alter than bodies however they please? How do you justify that claim?"

If you couldn't gouge out your right eye and cast it from thee (Matthew 5:29), would you still have freedom of religion?

> "So you cannot say you have the right to self-harm. Now, if you have, say, a defect in your body that is preventing the proper functioning of your body, then we may correct this defect through intervention. This is restorative, that is, it seeks to restore the function due to the body by virtue of how it ought to function. This is the basis of medicine."

What about vaccination and such where the intent is to cause a small amount of harm now, to prevent a problem you don't have - and may have never faced in any future. This is not restoring a defect, it's augmentative and preventative. Do you not have the right to cause that small harm? And yet that's in opposition to your "direct self-harm is even worse morally than harm of others because it is in direct opposition to one's own good". It's in alignment with one's own good. So, for example, are the torn muscle fibres when weight lifting, or the buildup of lactic acid causing muscle burn when running, or working through the night with no sleep in an emergency.

Less seriously, piercings for jewellery are self-harm and for one's greater happiness in appearance. Do people have no right to wear small pointy uncomfortable high-heel shoes? Is that immoral?

> "I think it's pretty obvious that right implies morally acceptability."

I think it's pretty obvious that there isn't a single "moral acceptability" which everyone agrees on. For example some have the right to eat animals and others consider that morally inacceptable. Some US states have different rules on public nudity than others, and some groups of people have different opinions on the morality of it.

> "You can't claim to have a right to something evil"

Not sure I follow this one; you can't really have a right to murder others, but in the sense of self-harm is it really "evil" to hurt yourself? What is evil and also doesn't involve harm to anyone else?

> "For example, do you have the right to lobotomize a perfectly healthy brain?"

One could argue whether a "perfectly healthy" brain would choose to lobotomize itself, but let's say it does - why do you say that's "very problematic"? The main objection I have - assuming the person is considered sane and healthy - is who is going to pay for the care afterwards, i.e. the harm rolls over onto others and is not purely self-harm. If you could sign that away - it's basically a slow and horrible suicide method.

Re: CRISPR gene-editing breakthrough opens door to treating broad array of diseases

#146
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is the line of reasoning that leads to banning abortions*. People have a right to alter their bodies. EDIT: and preventing young women from choosing sterilization.

How do you reason that people have the (presumably absolute) right to alter than bodies however they please? How do you justify that claim? It makes very specific assumptions which are very problematic. For example, do you have the right to lobotomize a perfectly healthy brain? It is immoral? Can you say you have the right to do something immoral? How about altering your uterus during pregnancy to prevent nutrients f…

> I think it's pretty obvious that right implies morally acceptability. You can't claim to have a right to something evil.

I think it's pretty obvious that right does NOT imply moral acceptability, and that you can have a right to something evil. In our societies, we have a great deal of disagreement about what things are morally acceptable/permissible. For a good liberal society, we may allow many things that we think are actually immoral, even evil. You need look no further than, say, the religious arena (including atheists) for such disagreement. People disagree about the moral acceptability of worshiping different gods (or about worshiping any 'gods'), calling someone an asshole, teaching your children one thing or another about sex, about engaging in particular sexual acts, about giving charity (or refraining from giving charity) to certain causes, and so on.

We grant people rights to do certain things (and I'm glad we do), but that does not entail that those things are therefore morally acceptable/permissible. You have a right to do them, but maybe you ought not.

Re: CRISPR gene-editing breakthrough opens door to treating broad array of diseases

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Precisely. Otherwise if we're going to walk the line of "well even though it's your body, 'us smarter people' say it's bad for you there for you cannot do it" will inevitably lead to the logic of dictating abortion rights as well. This is exactly the logic conservatives use with the Covid Vaccines but because liberals "know what's good for everyone," people shouldn't be allowed to make the "my body my choice" when it…

"Otherwise if we're going to walk the line of "well even though it's your body, 'us smarter people' say it's bad for you there for you cannot do it" will inevitably lead to the logic of dictating abortion rights as well." The first problem is that you are claiming that the child's body is the woman's body. It isn't and you know that. You know that is it an entirely distinct human being with it's own DNA, etc, etc. In…

> "you know that is it an entirely distinct human being"

You know that it isn't entirely distinct, it is inside and completely dependent upon another human.

> "In order to justify abortion, you would need to argue that murder (which is the direct, intentional killing of an innocent human being) is justifiable."

How do you feel when a woman has a miscarriage? The child is dead, the mother's body deliberately killed it. Is she culpable? Is it different if her brain cells are involved in the rejection of the child? Isn't that you assigning arbitrary boundaries according to taste?

There have to be arbitrary boundaries, the universe is a single thing, the idea of there being separate things inside it is a human convenient fiction, it's not real. The boundaries between things are fuzzy and disappear the closer you look at them. There's "just" atoms and energy, everything else is concept, if we want morals in the universe we have to make them up, and if we want them to apply to people, we have to make those up too.

Re: CRISPR gene-editing breakthrough opens door to treating broad array of diseases

#148
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that the liver is perhaps the easiest target since it filters the blood. See: https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2021/05/20/cr...

I expected we would be doing this using viruses, and there are viruses targeting various tissues/organs. The nanites though are just really Star Trek cool.

While nanoparticles could correspond to viral like carriers. The reason you probably wouldn't want to naively use viral particles is because any viral particle that would likely attack the body naturally would also trigger the immune system. That would decrease the efficacy and could actually increase the likelihood of side effects.

Re: CRISPR gene-editing breakthrough opens door to treating broad array of diseases

#149

Reminds me of this guy that cured himself of lactose intolerance. https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/health/a17804128/sc...

I recently watched the two videos on this (that I'm aware of) and it's the first time gene therapy didn't strike me as macabre Frankensteinian experiments on vulnerable people who will say "yes" to all kinds of crazy stuff out of desperation. Cystic fibrosis significantly impacts gut function and many people with it do poorly with dairy products. I could see this and/or some variation of this being valuable therapy f…

CFTR modulators have completely transformed CF treatment for +90% of patients. Gene therapy is a possibility, however, with there being +1000 possible mutations that can lead to CF, it’s not the clear cut candidate that some of the other rare genetic disorders are right now. The cynic in me also thinks that with CFTR modulators costing ~350k/year, drug companies may not feel incentivized to run the risky gene therapy trials and patients may not want to participate given the dramatic improvement in their lives with current therapy options.

Re: CRISPR gene-editing breakthrough opens door to treating broad array of diseases

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently watched the two videos on this (that I'm aware of) and it's the first time gene therapy didn't strike me as macabre Frankensteinian experiments on vulnerable people who will say "yes" to all kinds of crazy stuff out of desperation. Cystic fibrosis significantly impacts gut function and many people with it do poorly with dairy products. I could see this and/or some variation of this being valuable therapy f…

CFTR modulators have completely transformed CF treatment for +90% of patients. Gene therapy is a possibility, however, with there being +1000 possible mutations that can lead to CF, it’s not the clear cut candidate that some of the other rare genetic disorders are right now. The cynic in me also thinks that with CFTR modulators costing ~350k/year, drug companies may not feel incentivized to run the risky gene therapy…

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