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Whatever Happened to UI Affordances?

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Re: Whatever Happened to UI Affordances?

#111

Post by datavirtue »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #26

I'm looking for balance, here. Let me provide an example: I have a "left-swipe-to-delete-from-list." That's the standard way that Apple has decreed that items should be deleted. They provide no affordance. You can add an "Edit" button to the navbar, but that means you don't have room for other, more important (and frequently-used) items. In my case, this is a non-starter. I need the room for more important stuff. So…

If you are having trouble revealing all the functionality then your app is already too much for the platform.

Making your users learn a UI is stupid. You aren't building Autocad for the phone.

Re: Whatever Happened to UI Affordances?

#112

Post by systemvoltage »

todfox wrote: post #5

For more of these daily annoyances: https://grumpy.website The growing user hostility of UIs makes me want to stop developing software and even stop using computers. I started using computers because they made more sense to me than a lot of things. Now, I'm encountering these little moments of illogic and unreason every hour of the day. It's not just beginners who need little cues. I'm deeply familiar with the APIs b…

I tried reading the footer to get the contact information for on https://grumpy.website but it keeps doom-scrolling and only visible for a fraction of a second. What an irony.

I dream of a day when we go back to pagination. No, not just pagination numbers on the bottom of the page to flip through pages, but also the URL should reflect that and be able to share the 7th page with someone using a link.

Re: Whatever Happened to UI Affordances?

#113

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

datavirtue wrote: post #111
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #26

I'm looking for balance, here. Let me provide an example: I have a "left-swipe-to-delete-from-list." That's the standard way that Apple has decreed that items should be deleted. They provide no affordance. You can add an "Edit" button to the navbar, but that means you don't have room for other, more important (and frequently-used) items. In my case, this is a non-starter. I need the room for more important stuff. So…

If you are having trouble revealing all the functionality then your app is already too much for the platform. Making your users learn a UI is stupid. You aren't building Autocad for the phone.

> Making your users learn a UI is stupid.

I disagree. It's pretty much how everything (not just software) works.

Driving is learning a UI. So is riding a bicycle, or a horse. Heck, using a toaster is learning a UI.

Every standard GUI has platform conventions. In fact, becoming familiar with these conventions is one of the most important tasks that we all do, when starting out.

It's also why so many of us get "fixed" on one or two platforms. I generally suggest to folks that are thinking of switching platforms, to consider just upgrading their device on their current platform, instead.

Many HN readers are probably quite used to bouncing around a dozen different UI systems, but that is quite rare. Most folks like to find their rut, and then furnish it.

Re: Whatever Happened to UI Affordances?

#114

Post by jackson1442 »

todfox wrote: post #5

For more of these daily annoyances: https://grumpy.website The growing user hostility of UIs makes me want to stop developing software and even stop using computers. I started using computers because they made more sense to me than a lot of things. Now, I'm encountering these little moments of illogic and unreason every hour of the day. It's not just beginners who need little cues. I'm deeply familiar with the APIs b…

I can see how this one might be confusing- https://grumpy.website/post/0Vp0pSilq

but the site is misrepresenting the state. That user's state is still "muted," the red line indicates that it is a client side mute (so the user who checked the mute box can't hear them, but everyone else can) while the mute icon without a red line indicates that the other user has muted themselves; they're not transmitting audio.

There is a third state- Server Mutes turn the entire mute icon red and is a "far-end" mute. No one in the voice channel can hear that user and the user probably can't unmute themselves.

Looking more at the site I feel like the point it's trying to convey would be much stronger if it went for a quality over quantity approach and/or proposed solutions to some of these problems. A lot of them seem to almost intentionally miss the point of the UI.

For example, the airpods post[0] notes, "Want to listen to the podcast on your iPhone while playing a game on your iPad? Well tough luck using your AirPods for that," which is just completely false.

Sticking to posts like this[1][2] would lead to a much higher quality website imo.

[0]: https://grumpy.website/post/0VaJdRL-y

[1]: https://grumpy.website/post/0VlYhfUMg

[2]: https://grumpy.website/post/0VfEvLg0j

Re: Whatever Happened to UI Affordances?

#115

Post by crazygringo »

jwr wrote: post #108
armchairhacker wrote: post #84

Honestly I don't think minimalism is the issue. And I love skeuomorphism, even the overdone Apple version. Minimalism is ugly but when done right, it's actually one of the clearest UXs possible: only focusing on the content and guides, no weird extras, and every design decision is meaningful because you only get a few. Issues with today's UX are: more dark patterns, more people making apps easier (= more less experie…

I think the issue is that modern interfaces are self-centered. Or rather, the designers are self-centered: they believe that the world revolves around them, and Their Magnificent Design is the One Thing that everyone will want to learn, appreciate and admire. In reality, their design is one more thing among the hundreds or thousands of things that a user manages, and should mostly serve to get other things done. It's…

That's extremely ungenerous, and no more true about designers than coders.

Perhaps some designers start out have this immature attitude, but professional designers I've worked with are user-centered, not self-centered. That's just a professional prerequisite, and what you learn in design school as well.

And in any case, you could just as easily say about programmers starting out that they too often believe "Their Magnificent Program is the One Thing" and ignore what users actually need as well.

In any case, when it does happen (to anyone), it's not hubris, just immaturity. If something seems like the best solution to you, it takes experience and perspective to realize it's not always the best solution to others. But people generally learn that fairly early on.

Re: Whatever Happened to UI Affordances?

#116

Post by lelanthran »

mkr-hn wrote: post #105
lelanthran wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There used to be a Hall of Shame for GUIs on the web that I used to read around 2002 or thereabouts. Very similar to this, only for native programs.

Is it one of these? https://wiby.me/?q=hall+of+shame

Yup! Wasted an hour there just now :-)

Re: Whatever Happened to UI Affordances?

#117

Post by djur »

andai wrote: post #86
tesseract wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Horizontal lines (or sometimes an array of dots) are sometimes used as a "grip" icon to represent reorderable list rows.

I know, I've used them in my own designs. It just sounded like he saw a hamburger menu now for the first time 5 weeks ago! Or maybe it is some kind of joke?

Hamburger menu icons usually have a fixed position and are part of a header or something of that sort. Floating lines like that would always read as "drag grip" to me.

Re: Whatever Happened to UI Affordances?

#118

Post by clearing »

kitsunesoba wrote: post #39
clearing wrote: post #10

The author links out to a writeup on Safari 15 which I found interesting: https://morrick.me/archives/9368 One of the main bizarre design choices was making the address bar shrink as you add more tabs. It made me wonder if these designs reflect the diminution of sites visited in a modern internet user's session. Seems like we are moving from a mode of research-and-explore to residing in one of a few home bases (reddi…

I disagree with that article on the subject of Safari tab groups. I had already been grouping tabs by subject using separate windows, and now that tab groups let me rotate out sets without them all sitting in memory I’m using grouping more than ever. It’s been very effective at keeping the number of tabs in any given group/window low. I still do old style internet search-and-explore, and that is also enhanced because…

Oh for sure, and to clarify I'm not against the design changes! Tab groups are the logical next step in organizing thoughts-as-tabs and Firefox is sorely lacking in this capability in 2021.

Re: Whatever Happened to UI Affordances?

#119

Post by davidivadavid »

seanwilson wrote: post #76
failwhaleshark wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So? An affordance affords. It's in the word. > pulling, but not pushing. Because of prior ubiquitous, universal training. Something with a place for fingers to grasp must be for pulling because pushing needs no such requirements. If you want to split concept hairs or justify common-sense, you're going to have to delve into linguistics. Have a happy weekend.

I'm not debating the definition of the word. I'm saying I avoid using it where I can because I've personally found it hard to get multiple people to agree on the definition - you're proving the point by debating against your own link.

I would second that take. "Affordance" is commonly used to mean at least two different things all the time. I think Don Norman himself recommended against using the word at some point.

Re: Whatever Happened to UI Affordances?

#120

Post by ptx »

jp57 wrote: post #52

> Apple are slowly undoing their great usability work in the name of elegance. Not slowly, or recently. The big removal of affordances happened with IOS 7, and Jony Ive's "flat" UI aesthetic. Don Norman and Bruce Tognazzini, former Apple UI researchers and champions of UI affordances, wrote an essay[1] complaining about this problem in 2015. It seems like this era might be slowly _ending_ now that Ive is gone. [1] ht…

Even less recently than that. As a critique[1] from 1999 of QuickTime 4.0 puts it:

"The new interface represents an almost violent departure from the long established standards that have been the hallmark of Apple software. Ease of Use has always been paramount to Apple, but after exploring the QuickTime 4.0 Player, the rationale behind Apple's recent 'Think Different' advertising campaign is now clear."

[1] http://hallofshame.gp.co.at/qtime.htm

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