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Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

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Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#281

Post by edp »

stefan_ wrote: post #141
rjsw wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Teams sucks. Yep. Was in a Teams meeting last week. Audio mixing is poor compared with Zoom, any background noise on an active microphone will cut out another person speaking. The controls menu keeps changing. Click on the "raise hand" icon and it disappears, you can't "lower your hand" until it reappears some random time later.

Why is it that in every one of these meeting apps, speaking causes them to totally garble any other person speaking simultaneously? It's like they go "oh you are speaking lets downgrade all others to 1kbit/s". Stop with the byte pinching and just give us the full fidelity sound like I'm using TeamSpeak, it's fricking audio.

I think it's because of echo cancelling technology. In software like discord you can disable it and it's way better when people are talking simultaneously.

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#282

Post by spoonjim »

bloopernova wrote: post #44

Not really relevant but I need to vent. Client dropped Slack for Teams. I hate it, and information exchange has dropped precipitously since everyone switched. So slow, half the time text markup doesn't work, and the UI is inconsistent depending on if you're typing in a chat, meeting, or channel. Oh and none of the Slack logs were kept, losing years of information. (But that's not the fault of the Teams software) I lo…

On the contrary, I find that the total suckage of Teams means that there is no random chatter in Teams like we had in Slack because people hate using it. No memes or other random stuff. I like it.

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#283

Post by emddudley »

Teams has worked great for me. It's comparably fast to Slack. Calls and screen sharing work perfectly. I am not sure what is different about my situation versus the other users here. I use the native app on Windows, and my org currently has channels and most integrations disabled (Outlook, OneDrive).

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#284

Post by wila »

DonHopkins wrote: post #262
wila wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can send javascript directly to the WebView2 control [1]. [1] https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/api/microsoft.web.we...

>public System.Threading.Tasks.Task ExecuteScriptAsync (string javaScript); That's what I mean by sending JSON messages, but I'm asking if there is a way of directly calling native code from the JavaScript interpreter, synchronously passing pointers to JavaScript data structures back and forth, not just copying strings back and forth between separate processes through an asynchronous message queue. Like Microsoft's d…

There's this [1] and the C++ variant here [2]

So far I have not yet investigated what can be done with that. It looks a bit promising (and complicated).

Microsoft's deprecated control had the mshtml document interface and that was indeed very powerful.

The Async script capabilities give you a lot of power, but I agree that the asynchronous part of it is a huge pain and is causing me extra headaches as it is basically preventing me from creating the API I want to create.

[1] https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/api/microsoft.web.we...

[2] https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/webview2/ref...

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#285

Post by juangacovas »

dehrmann wrote: post #274
minaguib wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is it with "search doesn't work/work well" being a universal gripe with all of Microsoft's products ? It's not like there are no good examples of what modern user expectations are for searching a body of text....

I haven't worked on a search product, but I've worked at small shops with bad search products (one's business was even that product). Search is hard when you don't have lots of training data, data is poorly organized, you have mostly tail queries, and people aren't used to you search engine's quirks. Search results are also bad when you're balancing quality with yield (as in revenue). Google mostly doesn't have these…

For the sake of discovery, I'd say Manticore search does a pretty (and fast) good job with full text searches and suggestions.

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#286

Post by jodrellblank »

dafelst wrote: post #149
est wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everytime Electron is mentioned, VSC will be presented as counter example. The problem is VSC is the only snappy Electron app out there, Microsoft spend millions optimizing it, while most other Electron apps are crap. Native programs can be made snappy easily . That's the whole point.

But then with native you have to pay the cross platform price. Which is higher do you think? With Electron you get cross platform more or less for free and ostensibly you can make it faster later. Don't get me wrong, I love doing native work, but as someone who has to deal with cross-platform issues in native applications (well games) on the daily, I can tell you that even with massive code reuse and good interfaces,…

> "But then with native you have to pay the cross platform price. Which is higher do you think? With Electron you get cross platform more or less for free"

Don't pay the cross platform price. Stop developing inferior software for your core users so that other people on other platforms can also have inferior software. It's not a good tradeoff, it's a bean-counter's tradeoff.

It's like going to a steak restaurant and finding they only sell lettuce so vegans can eat there, or going to a bar and finding they no longer sell alcohol because they're trying to appeal to tetotallers who don't like bars. It's like Ferrari putting a Honda Civic engine in to try and appeal to both sets of customers and the Honda customers don't want the six figure price tag and the Ferrari customers don't want a low power reliable 4-cylinder engine. It's the "one size fits nobody very well" of software, it's the abandonment of your core competency to appeal to people who hate you.

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#287

Post by wila »

sofixa wrote: post #233
wila wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because they control the whole stack. FWIW, I'm currently finishing up an ActiveX wrapper for WebView2 so that it can be consumed in a way similar to the old IE WebBrowser control and so far I'm pretty impressed. To give you a basic idea. I'm running the control embedded and the WebView2 control consumes about 60MB after navigating to my own -mostly text- website. Browsing within that control to the page of the…

> : Another huge advantage. Last week I upgraded MS Edge and WebView2 is also upgraded. So the control is kept up to date and not depending on an external dependency that might end up being a security nightmare Or disadvantage if you look at it from the developer's point of view - they have zero control over the browser version, so if there's a bug, or lacking feature, or something deprecated, you're screwed.

It's a COM interface they can't deprecate without changing the interface.

re. "zero control".. you can set a minimum version that you require for your application. If Microsoft creates a bug then yes, you might have an issue. But that counts for the whole stack anyways.

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#288

Post by criddell »

ratww wrote: post #159
bloopernova wrote: post #44

Not really relevant but I need to vent. Client dropped Slack for Teams. I hate it, and information exchange has dropped precipitously since everyone switched. So slow, half the time text markup doesn't work, and the UI is inconsistent depending on if you're typing in a chat, meeting, or channel. Oh and none of the Slack logs were kept, losing years of information. (But that's not the fault of the Teams software) I lo…

Same for us. Our channels went from vibrant to dead in a week because notifications are somehow broken there in ways I can't explain. The solution for us was to create multi-user chats in the "Chat" section and let the "Teams" section die the horrible death it deserves. The notifications are more consistent in "Chat". But god forbid someone talks too much, because then you get those horrible non-native notifications…

The "Teams" part has never made sense. A few exist where I work and I don't think they have ever been used.

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#289

Post by MuffinFlavored »

spoonjim wrote: post #282
bloopernova wrote: post #44

Not really relevant but I need to vent. Client dropped Slack for Teams. I hate it, and information exchange has dropped precipitously since everyone switched. So slow, half the time text markup doesn't work, and the UI is inconsistent depending on if you're typing in a chat, meeting, or channel. Oh and none of the Slack logs were kept, losing years of information. (But that's not the fault of the Teams software) I lo…

On the contrary, I find that the total suckage of Teams means that there is no random chatter in Teams like we had in Slack because people hate using it. No memes or other random stuff. I like it.

Or just have dedicated rooms for memes/rules about no memes in serious channels and mute the rest...

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#290

Post by bastawhiz »

hirsin wrote: post #255
bastawhiz wrote: post #238

Electron came out of Atom, which came out of GitHub, which Microsoft now owns. Obviously Microsoft is a vast empire and there's no reason every team will adopt other teams' work, but it seems curious to hear that electron was dropped for what's effectively the same tech (chromium rendering a web app). The article tries to explain why Edge Webview2 is better, but I don't find the explanation very compelling. Chromium…

Teams was built on Electron a long time before Microsoft purchased Github.

Does that matter? Microsoft employs probably all of the foremost experts on Electron right now. The decision to move away from electron didn't happen before Microsoft bought GitHub.
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