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Reddit’s disrespectful design

ognjen.io

241–250 of 516 posts

Re: Reddit’s disrespectful design

#241
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd phrase it as "Reddit, the product" is fine. "Reddit, the investors who bought the product" are in a difficult spot. And certainly haven't shown an overabundance of creativity in monetization approaches. Suffice to say, you probably don't deserve a "front page of the Internet" tagline if your first display is a redirect request to your app.

Reddit is a potential B Corp or non profit masquerading as a VC backed tech startup with exit or ad revenue potential. Bag holders get tired eventually.

This was my take at one point, but a lot of actions made it clear that's no longer the case, and it's now more of a social media site/app that also has porn.

Re: Reddit’s disrespectful design

#242

While not disclosing that e-mail is optional is a dark pattern, it's still better than what almost every other site does, which is making it a hard requirement. Another dark pattern on Reddit is that the web version only allows you to open content in their app. If you already have a compatible third party reddit app installed, "open in app" just sends you to the Play store. (Normal behavior is that if you have an app…

From what I know, reddit is not entirely to blame on its own on this. Apple's policy only lets the first party app open certain domains, like YouTube (please correct me if I'm mistaken) and Twitter. Overall, a decent workaround is an app called Opener (link to follow) which lets you switch to specific apps from the share sheet. Apollo also has this feature for reddit links specifically. However, I do agree that reddi…

That's a tough cookie to solve. So here's the hypothetical. I create a trashware game app. Typical low-hanging fruit. I set it as a handler for amazon.com links. Then in my app I handle these links in a convincing web container.

And obvious, mangle the links with my referrer URL in the process.

I call this a hypothetical, but the only reason it is, is that apple wouldn't allow me to register as a handler for amazon.com.

Re: Reddit’s disrespectful design

#243
post #207

I was the EM for Reddit's Growth team around this time. I am responsible for / contributed to a few features like the current signup flow, AMP pages, push notifications, email digests, app download interstitials, etc. There was a new product lead who joined with many good ideas, but some of them were dark patterns that I heavily protested. After a few months of this, it was obvious that I was going to be reigned in o…

> These practices are done because it works. It works for metrics. It works for making more money than you know what to do with. It absolutely doesn't work for keeping your user base loyal. The moment you implement the dark patterns, the users immediately start looking for alternatives to your platform that respect them. That said, I still use reddit. Except I use the old design and RES. And a third-party app on my p…

> That said, I still use reddit. Except I use the old design and RES. And a third-party app on my phone.

Same. And should that no longer be an option I'm fairly confident I'd stop using reddit.

Re: Reddit’s disrespectful design

#244

Everything about Reddit's (visible) engineering is terrible these days. The new React app UI is probably one of the least performant React apps I've ever seen / experienced. Turn on the re-render track in React DevTools and watch as simply upvoting a single post on your page causes every component to re-render. However they're delivering video/images to clients is the worst I've seen in a long time. Videos constantly…

> Sorry anyone here that's a Reddit engineer but something is going terribly wrong over there.

You shouldn't need to apologize to the Reddit engineers. They are the ones building it this way! I wish a Reddit engineer would respond here to help people understand why on earth the site's quality is so poor, but we know they can't/won't due to confidentiality. Whenever I browse the non-old Reddit, I can't help but think it's impossible to have such bad quality accidentally. They must be deliberately making it this bad. It would be fascinating to get a glimpse at their bug tracker, to see what tickets they prioritize and which ones they ignore.

Re: Reddit’s disrespectful design

#245

Twitter is like this also. I want to reduce my Twitter usage so I delete the app and sometimes I just want to see what Elon or somebody like that has been up to. Can I go use their website without logging in? Hell no I can’t. Just sucks

Imho twitter is a far bigger problem for hiding things. A) tweets often get embedded in news articles - meaning sometimes context is left out of an article and you can't even tell if it's click bait or maybe the article is being harsh /vicious B) reddit is supposedly about community discussion so it would actually make sense if individual subs had the power to only show content to logged in permitted accounts only - that way banned accounts can't snoop on users?

Re: Reddit’s disrespectful design

#246
post #90

Not a power Reddit user here. I only stumble upon random posts that search engines throw my way when I'm looking things up so I might very well be missing something. The main questions: Considering all the bad practices, why people keep using Reddit and what makes it so great? Why people make custom clients instead of looking for a full-fledged alternative? The questions are genuine, not a sarcasm. The following is j…

They have good content and good comments. Funny junk is interspersed with news and occasional trivia and life stories. The thoughtful comments really are great and have helped me understand some POVs and hear about other people’s lives.

This just does not happen on Facebook for example. Most groups and posts are run into the ground by junk comments that make discussion impossible because there’s no downvote that eventually hides them. In a way Facebook is more equal but unfortunately not every commenter is equally decent.

Re: Reddit’s disrespectful design

#247
post #207

I was the EM for Reddit's Growth team around this time. I am responsible for / contributed to a few features like the current signup flow, AMP pages, push notifications, email digests, app download interstitials, etc. There was a new product lead who joined with many good ideas, but some of them were dark patterns that I heavily protested. After a few months of this, it was obvious that I was going to be reigned in o…

> These practices are done because it works. Which practices, though? A number of the practices you note (e.g. streamlined signup flow) are not user hostile at all, and others are a mixed bag. (E.g. one could argue that AMP + a properly featured mobile site and 'official' app were necessary steps with a subpar implementation). But when looking specifically at the dark patterns that power users are most likely to comp…

> streamlined signup flow

It was more streamlined before. You literally only had to input a username and any password, no policies, email or anything else you had to adhere to/provide.

I stopped using reddit back then after using it several hours daily for years, so not every power user ignored these changes

Re: Reddit’s disrespectful design

#248
post #190

They make it very difficult to be a contributor as well, a lot of subreddits focus on showcasing/bragging rather than discussions now. I've had a DIY question I've posted to the three biggest home improvement/diy subreddits and it was deleted from one, downvoted to oblivion in another one without replies and downvoted to 0 in the last one with the only comment proposing a solution so overkill grotesque that I didn't…

Downvotes would be fine if I ever managed to post anything. Most subs have automated post removal when the post doesn’t follow whatever requirement they have but you only know this requirement after you’re done making your post. Thanks a lot for letting me talk to a wall, Reddit.

Re: Reddit’s disrespectful design

#249
post #32

Here's how reddit's business model probably works: you have power users which create or submit the content and write the witty comments and then you have the lurkers which just browse. what reddit is trying to monetize is the interaction with the latter user group: comments provide little space to promote ads, so most of them are hidden by default. instead they promote lots of posts with images interspersed with ads.…

You left out the moderators. Some of what they do is useful tending of communities, but some of what they do is provide free labor that addresses a hard problem.

Re: Reddit’s disrespectful design

#250
post #207

I was the EM for Reddit's Growth team around this time. I am responsible for / contributed to a few features like the current signup flow, AMP pages, push notifications, email digests, app download interstitials, etc. There was a new product lead who joined with many good ideas, but some of them were dark patterns that I heavily protested. After a few months of this, it was obvious that I was going to be reigned in o…

> These practices are done because it works. Which practices, though? A number of the practices you note (e.g. streamlined signup flow) are not user hostile at all, and others are a mixed bag. (E.g. one could argue that AMP + a properly featured mobile site and 'official' app were necessary steps with a subpar implementation). But when looking specifically at the dark patterns that power users are most likely to comp…

> But when looking specifically at the dark patterns that power users are most likely to complain about, it's unclear that they would help DAU/MAU much, if at all. Casual users might not complain overtly all that much, but they're almost certainly discouraged by many such practices.

Power users of sites like Reddit are already hooked. They’re already logged in, already have an app installed, and they don’t see all of the nags and pop-ups that appear to users who aren’t logged in.

It’s the unregistered users and those who aren’t logged in who have to suffer the nags and pop-ups and limitations. And as the site constantly reminds them, they can fix the problem by downloading the app and joining the ranks of trackable users.

When a website makes their money from advertising, user metrics are king. The more app installs, DAUs, and unique registered users you can show, the more money you can collect from advertisers. Advertisers would rather show their ad once to 1000 people than 100 times to 10 people. They want to use unique user counts, not just guesses based on volatile IP address, to support that.

As a result, it’s more beneficial for a company to alienate 1 user who won’t register (and therefore won’t contribute to metrics) in exchange for gaining 1 other user who will register. If I had to guess, I suspect Reddit is gaining more like 10 or more users for every 1 user who is alienated.

The unfortunate reality is that when it comes to free sites and services, power users (who generally install ad blockers or have been trained to ignore ads) can cost more than they bring in revenue. It’s the casual users who don’t have ad blockers and don’t have any aversion to ads that ultimately bring the revenue.

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