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Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

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Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#101

Post by manigandham »

jon-wood wrote: post #74
slashdev wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Native apps means essentially building at least 5 distinct apps: windows, mac, iOS, linux, android. What a mess to work with and maintain. We already have cross-platfrom UI engines called browsers and they're very advanced and reasonably pleasant to work with these days. If you bundle the browser (electron) then you don't have to worry about differences between browsers. So electron makes plenty of sense to developer…

If only Microsoft had a app development framework designed to allow developing apps for multiple mobile + desktop platforms with as much shared code as possible. https://dotnet.microsoft.com/apps/xamarin

There's a new project called MAUI that also handles desktop: https://github.com/dotnet/maui

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#102

Post by cudgy »

Tools like Slack and Teams are focus-killers and should be banned from all companies that want to work efficiently. The synchronous nature of these tools and the chatty blather they encourage should be avoided by all serious knowledge workers.

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#103

Post by raspyberr »

Teams is an embarassing piece of software. I use it on work laptop - a Microsoft surface. The laptop is Microsoft branded and all their software is so slow. Clicking to change chats is 1-2 seconds of delay. Opening office files is 1-2 seconds of delay. Opening calendar in outlook is 1-2 seconds of delay. Everything is so laggy and 90% of the time all you want to see is text. Ctrl-F search through Teams defaults to non-exact search.

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#104

Post by cudgy »

chrisseaton wrote: post #69
richardstephens wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me personally, it's having a set of UI widgets as consistent as possible with everything else on the platform as the primary concern. Secondarily it's performance / battery life.

I think this argument used to make sense to me as well, but since most apps I interact with are web apps in browsers these days, most of my interactions aren't with native widgets anyway and I don't really care anymore.

Many of us have been bludgeoned by web apps to the point of not caring any more … most web apps are slow, twitchy interfaces that shift constantly and the industry loves it because it allows them to utilize the armies of (used to be cheap) web developers but at a heavy cost to the user experience

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#105

Post by raspyberr »

raspyberr wrote: post #103

Teams is an embarassing piece of software. I use it on work laptop - a Microsoft surface. The laptop is Microsoft branded and all their software is so slow. Clicking to change chats is 1-2 seconds of delay. Opening office files is 1-2 seconds of delay. Opening calendar in outlook is 1-2 seconds of delay. Everything is so laggy and 90% of the time all you want to see is text. Ctrl-F search through Teams defaults to no…

In fact I once timed getting into a Teams meeting from turning the computer on and it took pretty much exactly 5 minutes. FIVE MINUTES. The laptop has an SSD how is it five minutes?

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#106

Post by handrous »

qlm wrote: post #73
xyst wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with this. Also how can they forget an option to “paste without formatting”? Copying stuff from other sources is extremely painful. At this point, I leave it as is. I don’t have time to micromanage each copy and paste. Also teams has this arbitrary message character limit that makes it terrible for sharing large chunks of text (partial logs for example). While the integrations with outlook (mail/scheduling) +…

Can somebody explain why "paste with formatting" is so widely the default option? I have literally never wanted to paste with formatting and neither have multiple family members who have needed help with preventing it from happening.

All I can figure is that research/observation showed that:

- Normal users often prefer to paste with formatting.

- Normal users will never figure out how to do that if it's not the default.

- Normal users will usually reluctantly accept paste-with-formatting even if it's not what they wanted—that is, it's only rarely entirely unacceptable for them.

- Power users will figure out how to paste without formatting.

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#107

Post by oscargrouch »

axutio wrote: post #23

I'm wondering how swapping Electron for another Chromium backend will allow them to halve the memory usage. Is Node the main reason that Electron uses so much memory? Or is the Chromium renderer poorly optimized to the extent that it's using double the memory needed?

You must remember that each Electron instance will have its own gpu and browser process.

If you do just like Chrome, one host process + one gpu process and all the rest are renderer process as it was meant to, you will use less memory.

Im working on something that are meant to enable native applications with a Chrome-based platform, and it was one of the first thing i've tried to achieve.

Electron was just being sloppy and stick with its first MVP.. because being able to centrally control things through a process like the Chrome browser process does, give you a lot more functionality to explore, compared to what Electron is doing where each host/browser process is isolated and don't know about the other players.

Its akin to use a cannon to kill a fly..

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#108

Post by fomine3 »

jon-wood wrote: post #74
slashdev wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Native apps means essentially building at least 5 distinct apps: windows, mac, iOS, linux, android. What a mess to work with and maintain. We already have cross-platfrom UI engines called browsers and they're very advanced and reasonably pleasant to work with these days. If you bundle the browser (electron) then you don't have to worry about differences between browsers. So electron makes plenty of sense to developer…

If only Microsoft had a app development framework designed to allow developing apps for multiple mobile + desktop platforms with as much shared code as possible. https://dotnet.microsoft.com/apps/xamarin

This is how MS divided.

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#109

Post by tenebrisalietum »

xyst wrote: post #55
bloopernova wrote: post #44

Not really relevant but I need to vent. Client dropped Slack for Teams. I hate it, and information exchange has dropped precipitously since everyone switched. So slow, half the time text markup doesn't work, and the UI is inconsistent depending on if you're typing in a chat, meeting, or channel. Oh and none of the Slack logs were kept, losing years of information. (But that's not the fault of the Teams software) I lo…

I agree with this. Also how can they forget an option to “paste without formatting”? Copying stuff from other sources is extremely painful. At this point, I leave it as is. I don’t have time to micromanage each copy and paste. Also teams has this arbitrary message character limit that makes it terrible for sharing large chunks of text (partial logs for example). While the integrations with outlook (mail/scheduling) +…

Paste without formatting is Ctrl-Shift-V, isn't it? I don't know if I've ever tried it in Teams though.

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#110

Post by sircastor »

xvilka wrote: post #20

Maybe one day they will discover Qt framework too.

A few years back my company put out reqs for Qt devs because we were pushing hard to do some POCs with Qt frameworks. We had a hard time finding those people. I don’t know if it was location or compensation or what.
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