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Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

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Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#81

Post by slumdev »

bloopernova wrote: post #44

Not really relevant but I need to vent. Client dropped Slack for Teams. I hate it, and information exchange has dropped precipitously since everyone switched. So slow, half the time text markup doesn't work, and the UI is inconsistent depending on if you're typing in a chat, meeting, or channel. Oh and none of the Slack logs were kept, losing years of information. (But that's not the fault of the Teams software) I lo…

Same.

Our company (we'll call it Monsarno) was bought by a certain German aspirin company, and our Bavarian overlords are slowly forcing us from Slack over to Teams. It's a nightmare, and very few groups have made the transition willingly.

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#82

Post by bloopernova »

tut-urut-utut wrote: post #65
bloopernova wrote: post #44

Not really relevant but I need to vent. Client dropped Slack for Teams. I hate it, and information exchange has dropped precipitously since everyone switched. So slow, half the time text markup doesn't work, and the UI is inconsistent depending on if you're typing in a chat, meeting, or channel. Oh and none of the Slack logs were kept, losing years of information. (But that's not the fault of the Teams software) I lo…

> Oh and none of the Slack logs were kept, losing years of information. Agree with your sentiment except that it's not Teams fault that your client didn't care about message history when they decided to migrate to Teams.

True, good point. I updated my comment, thanks!

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#83

Post by Barrin92 »

richardstephens wrote: post #46
chrisseaton wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I want a chat service with native apps But why? 'Native' is a tool, not a goal, surely? What's the underlying goal you want to achieve, and do you really need native to achieve that?

For me personally, it's having a set of UI widgets as consistent as possible with everything else on the platform as the primary concern. Secondarily it's performance / battery life.

I think this has long stopped being a design goal. The OS is not the primary platform any more which everything orients around, it's an access point to the web. Products are determining design language now.

People don't expect Google to look 'like Windows' just because they're on a Windows OS, they expect Google to look like Material apps across all platforms. There's not 'windows spotify' or 'android spotify' but they expect the app to look the feel the same everywhere, and in that way companies actually benefit from using Electron.

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#84

Post by zvrba »

drclau wrote: post #62
darksaints wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Qt is about as ideal as you can get for cross platform apps. Unfortunately the licensing is an impediment for a lot of usecases.

So, Microsoft should buy Qt then.

Yeah, and support it on .net.

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#85

Post by samat »

nlitened wrote: post #36
richardstephens wrote: post #7

Drop Electron.... for Edge Webview2. I mean, okay sure, half the memory is an improvement. But what is going on in the chat industry that everyone's converged on Electron? You'd think Microsoft of all companies would be able to figure out how to build native apps. If I want a chat service with native apps, it seems like my only option is IRC.

If I understand correctly, Telegram has native apps on all platforms, and they are super fast and slick.

They are the one example of messaging done right on the client side.

And it maddens me that their whole team, including ops and backend is like 50 people.

At the same time, they used some pretty unconventional ways to find brilliant people. For example, for iOS and Mac and android apps, they simply held a contest for the best open source app fitting succinct and reasonable requirements. The winner got sizable prize and place on the dev team.

Then they released that app as a Telegram X and then gradually sunset the older app.

Pretty neat on multiple fronts.

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#86

Post by eloff »

dreyfan wrote: post #42
slashdev wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Native apps means essentially building at least 5 distinct apps: windows, mac, iOS, linux, android. What a mess to work with and maintain. We already have cross-platfrom UI engines called browsers and they're very advanced and reasonably pleasant to work with these days. If you bundle the browser (electron) then you don't have to worry about differences between browsers. So electron makes plenty of sense to developer…

Microsoft is a $2T company, I feel like they could afford to do it right.

Regardless of what the financial markets value them at, their resources are proportional to profits, not market cap.

That aside, they also have lots of products and teams and some have more budget and resources than others.

Saving some memory usage in teams for more than double the development costs, is probably an unattractive position for that team. It also makes it hard to keep features consistent across platforms (as it is, teams struggles with that!)

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#87

Post by eloff »

onion2k wrote: post #66
dreyfan wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft is a $2T company, I feel like they could afford to do it right.

The market cap doesn't tell you anything about the available resources a company has. For example... Gamestop's market cap did this recently - https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/GME/gamestop/marke... - the company doesn't suddenly have more money to spend on projects.

Not a great example since they sold over a billion worth of stock. They do actually have more money now.

Microsoft generates more money than they know what to do with so they return large amounts in dividends and probably stock buybacks (I haven't checked for MSFT specifically, but it's all the rage these days.)

That's essentially the opposite of what GME did.

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#88

Post by goda90 »

bloopernova wrote: post #44

Not really relevant but I need to vent. Client dropped Slack for Teams. I hate it, and information exchange has dropped precipitously since everyone switched. So slow, half the time text markup doesn't work, and the UI is inconsistent depending on if you're typing in a chat, meeting, or channel. Oh and none of the Slack logs were kept, losing years of information. (But that's not the fault of the Teams software) I lo…

My team started off piloting a self hosted Mattermost instance used by our developers and quality assurance testers. Tons of information exchange as well a team bonding.

Then they rolled out Teams for the whole company. We lost a ton of features that made Mattermost a delight to use. The way channels worked felt less intuitive, and it was just harder to care about group messages. And the worst part? A 30 day deletion policy.

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#89

Post by tluyben2 »

jon-wood wrote: post #74
slashdev wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Native apps means essentially building at least 5 distinct apps: windows, mac, iOS, linux, android. What a mess to work with and maintain. We already have cross-platfrom UI engines called browsers and they're very advanced and reasonably pleasant to work with these days. If you bundle the browser (electron) then you don't have to worry about differences between browsers. So electron makes plenty of sense to developer…

If only Microsoft had a app development framework designed to allow developing apps for multiple mobile + desktop platforms with as much shared code as possible. https://dotnet.microsoft.com/apps/xamarin

Yep, we moved away because MS themselves are simply not serious about it.

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#90

Post by _ix »

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #45

Teams sucks. It's user interface is unintuitive and messy. I find it difficult to find the context I want. Search doesn't seem to work. It takes a long time to load. When it eventually loads, it pops itself up in front of whatever I've opened and started working on (whilst Teams is busy loading) to take all my keystrokes until I notice the keystrokes aren't showing up in the program I was already using - I've seen at…

I started writing a long-winded thing to enumerate the problems with Teams that no product person at Microsoft will ever see, so why bother? It's a terrible product. The purported sticker price for enterprises disguises the costly loss of productivity due to this mess. It's just a godawful mess.
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