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Github is Your New Resume

code.dblock.org

71–80 of 152 posts

Re: Github is Your New Resume

#71
post #39
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The assumption, however, that everyone uses Github results in processes having a dependency on Github. Which is stupid.

We use github, but have a fallback server.

Sorry--I meant social processes. If the mindset is that "Github is your resume," then the focus is that Github is your resume, and the line of thinking goes, so to speak, "if it's not on Github, they don't have it." Which is not good.

While social networking makes sense to have a single central location makes sense (but not totally so, see G+ v. Facebook), writing code does not.

Re: Github is Your New Resume

#72
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who works in a 'bigco' culture, I would definitely be looking for a github (or other vcs) link on a new hire, regardless of seniority. Of course they might have their own website with some portfolio code, and that is fine too in my eyes. What I'm looking for is the signal that says, "I care about my profession, I go the extra mile".

No, you're saying you want an excuse not to hire people who don't contribute to open source on your favorite source hosting site.

I would suggest gently that pnathan is saying the exact opposite of that.

Certain others with an odd veneration for Github seem to be saying otherwise (see kfalter's post on another subthread), but they are not a majority.

Re: Github is Your New Resume

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whenever someone asks for your github ID as part of the hiring process, you can say "Next!" Yes you can, but your words do not convince me that this is a sound job-seeking strategy. You say: ...have a stakeholder in the business, who is a competent engineer, look thru the resumes, pick the ones they want to meet with, and bring them in. To persuade me, you must establish that the companies with a strategy of "look th…

It is an obviously unsound practice because at its core is an ideological prejudice: We're going to judge you, not on the quality of your skills, but on whether you contribute to open source software or not. Candidate are better off working for companies that are interested in getting to know them in order to make hiring decisions, rather than running them thru a political correctness filter. I don't really care whet…

We're going to judge you, not on the quality of your skills, but on whether you contribute to open source software or not.

That's interesting. I don't see it that way, and neither do a lot of other people. Here's how I see it: Those people that do write code I can review provide me with more information than those that don't. They make my job easier. I judge the code, not whether the code is open source.

This is exactly the same phenomena as writing a readable resume, or blogging where I can read it. It increases their chances of being hired simply because they reduce the friction involved in the hiring process.

Now, does that mean that I will not hire someone who doesn't have a github account? No. It's my job to hire them too. But as an employer, it is remiss of me not to use all of the information available to judge hires. This is not prejudice, this is a business strategy.

Your words seem to indicate this is not a question of tactics and strategy. You introduce a lot of emotional rhetoric such as "political correctness." Frankly, I have NO idea what you are talking about, as Github has zero to do with whether one uses the word "bitch" in a presentation at a conference ;-)

I cannot read your mind, but in the conversation between you and I, YOU are the one introducing emotional baggage like "ideological prejudice," not me. I therefore suggest that if you want to stamp out all this zeal and prejudice, you start with YOURSELF. I am not the one claiming that people who write things I can read are or aren't better than those who don't. I am not the one with an axe to grind. I am simply a fellow trying to get my job done and looking for efficient and effective strategies for doing so.

Re: Github is Your New Resume

#74
post #40
post #27

What about: - those that use different VCSs? - people who don't have the time (due to their job or other circumstances) to work on things they can open source? - people who work at companies that essentially own everything they might do so you can't work on open source? and - companies where hiring goes through HR who won't know what the hell Github is? Having work on Github is probably a good idea for college studen…

Github is to coders what an online portfolio/web presence is for designers. Look at the design industry... corporate designers and grads and freelancers used to all have a hard copy, artfully crafted portfolio on sensual-to-touch paper stock. That's gone. And no one cared if the corporate designers didn't have time to create a website. Even if you still have an amazing portfolio (which is the resume for the designer)…

No. Github is that to some coders.

The overwhelming majority of programmers do not use Github for their projects. I would bet that not even a majority of open-source programmers use Github for their projects.

There are alternatives. Quit thinking yours is the only way. It is not.

Re: Github is Your New Resume

#75
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're expressing a prejudice here and advocating discrimination based on it. It seems ideological. You're saying "Don't hire people if they don't contribute to open source projects." You assume they are watching TV, rather than, say, working on an iOS game that they are selling. Resumes are for deciding who you're going to interview. If github is the new resume, then you're not going to know about the side projects.

I don't want to turn this into a game of forum post logical proofs. I don't advocate "don't hire if no OSS". I work with smart people that get stuff done and don't have a Github account. That's fine, it's a personal choice how you use your time. What rubs me the wrong way is when people say "It's unfair to look at Github as the new resume because I don't have enough time to do open source". Like I said originally, I'…

People are very different. It takes all kinds. The kind of hacker you are, is not the only kind of hacker there is. There can be very bright, excellent engineers, who spend their entire off-duty time watching TV. They don't have a duty to contribute to open source software and choosing not to does not tell you anything about their skills as an engineer.

I remember once a new coworker telling me -- on his first day, no less- that he didn't have a computer at home. He was proud of this. He was a new CS graduate, and for him, computers were not an interest, at all. It was just a job. I asked him what he was into, and it was sports, naturally.

I didn't like that, it rubbed me the wrong way. I probably would have given him the thumbs down if I'd been in the hiring loop then.

Turned out he was a good engineer. Better than that, the sport he was into was one I got into as well and we spent a fair bit of time over the years in our off hours far away from any computers.

Re: Github is Your New Resume

#76

I recently interviewed at a Fortune 100 company's new "Innovation" group. I pointed them to the various projects I have on Github as examples of my work. They reviewed it and liked what they saw. However, my interviewer told me "we've seen your code on Github. It's great, but just so you know, you won't be able to keep that up if you work here." I asked more about what he meant by this and he told me that the company…

It's telling that their "Innovation group" is shackled with the same restrictions as the rest of the company.

Re: Github is Your New Resume

#77
"Your first job should be at an organization that embraces open-source and lets you contribute to existing projects. Other companies simply don’t deserve you."

Oh, I had to laugh at that. Good luck explaining that one to the wife. I'm sorry honey, the pay way great, the benefits were good, there was an excellent health plan and even a stock buy-in option.... if ONLY they had agreed to embrace open source so I could work there.

Re: Github is Your New Resume

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frankly, I think you're out of your mind. You should hire people based on absolutely as much useful information as you can ethically get your hands on. Why waste the information in a person's github profile? Resumes suck, and are damned near useless. Bringing people in based on resumes wastes your lead engineer's time because the % hit rate on them will be very low. You will, at the very least, need to phone screen s…

I find it interesting that you presume the hit rate on bringing people in based on resumes would be very low. I can tell a good engineer from a bad one, pretty well, using resumes. Phone screens, however are a waste of time. It is difficult to establish rapport with someone over the phone, for both parties, and I've seen some people actually ask programming questions over the phone. One very good engineer I hired, ba…

Phone interviews aren't that bad, IMO, with proper use of http://i.seemikecode.com or something similar. But when there's a language barrier of some kind, they're definitely not going to be as useful.

Re: Github is Your New Resume

#79
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it interesting that you presume the hit rate on bringing people in based on resumes would be very low. I can tell a good engineer from a bad one, pretty well, using resumes. Phone screens, however are a waste of time. It is difficult to establish rapport with someone over the phone, for both parties, and I've seen some people actually ask programming questions over the phone. One very good engineer I hired, ba…

I once was given a phone interview because a friend of mine knew the hiring manager. The manager really didn't want to waste time with me, he said, because I had just graduated from school, and thus I couldn't possibly be useful to him. But at my friend's insisting, he gave me the interview, and summarily dismissed me. A few weeks later the manager was fired from the company for some sort of unprofessional behavior,…

I'm not sure the point you're making, but I should have said "phone interviews, at least for me, are a waste of time."

I would have brought you in face to face... a recommendation from someone already working there is a very valid positive signal.

Re: Github is Your New Resume

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is an obviously unsound practice because at its core is an ideological prejudice: We're going to judge you, not on the quality of your skills, but on whether you contribute to open source software or not. Candidate are better off working for companies that are interested in getting to know them in order to make hiring decisions, rather than running them thru a political correctness filter. I don't really care whet…

We're going to judge you, not on the quality of your skills, but on whether you contribute to open source software or not. That's interesting. I don't see it that way, and neither do a lot of other people. Here's how I see it: Those people that do write code I can review provide me with more information than those that don't. They make my job easier. I judge the code, not whether the code is open source. This is exac…

" if you want to stamp out all this zeal and prejudice, you start with YOURSELF."

You're talking to the person, rather than the point. In fact, looking at your original response, it is constructed to do the same thing.

I'm done here.

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