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Star Citizen Progress Tracker v1.0

robertsspaceindustries.com

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Re: Star Citizen Progress Tracker v1.0

#211

Post by hluska »

platz wrote: post #177
hluska wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agreed completely until I started playing Minecraft with kids. Once they taught me how to play, I got to see the amount of creativity within the game. From my perspective, it's a really amazing way to start instilling mathematical literacy in kids and the best part is that they have so much fun they don't even realize it. As an example, thanks to Minecraft, my five year old already has an understanding of exponents…

understanding of exponents and mathematical literacy is great but it's not the same thing as creativity.

I agree completely but I think it takes incredible creativity to make something educational so much fun that kids don’t realize they’re learning.

Re: Star Citizen Progress Tracker v1.0

#213

Post by Tom_neverwinter »

Refund nut jobs argue their opinions are fact.. . Based on opinions.. Moving goalposts from 7 years ago that were debunked... Failed to pan out and claims the company was going bankrupt any day now.. .. While magically making a profit... Logic fallacy. .. How do they work.

Re: Star Citizen Progress Tracker v1.0

#214

Post by Tom_neverwinter »

jarcane wrote: post #158
georgeecollins wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is interesting to see how much people want the dream of a game, the evolving story, and the community. It is a great example of the things people want from gaming-- and life I guess. The closest thing I can think of is Minecraft, which IMO is a 100x better game but still you can't play it forever. People loved the creativity of it, but even more they liked the idea and the story of the creativity. How many…

When someone continually milks customers for more and more cash on the promise of something never delivered, that's called "exploitation" and "a con job." Minecraft launched into EA with a game that was still actually fun to play in itself, and asked a moderate fee for access to ongoing improvements. Star Citizen isn't selling a dream, it's selling plots of land on the moon.

So literally the refunds group... Who makes claims that never panned out... The move their goalposts... While the game continues to fulfill the promoises it made...

Re: Star Citizen Progress Tracker v1.0

#215

Post by Tom_neverwinter »

cletus wrote: post #52

Star Citizen is a cautionary tale about how too much money can be a curse. Star Citizen and Elite Dangerous came around at roughly the same time but Elite has been a complete game for years. Elite did things right in the sense that they released a complete game and added to it. I've seen videos on Star Citizen talking about new systems they're adding like being put in prison and escaping and all I can think of is tha…

What's really interesting is how long cletus has had an account pushing hate on this game.. While employing the tactics they claim this game is.... Project? Logic fallacies.. Then posting that this is some unique user on their hate bait reddit.. .

Re: Star Citizen Progress Tracker v1.0

#216

Post by pdimitar »

afrodc_ wrote: post #179
cletus wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hot take: trying to appeal to both PvP and PvE players is the biggest mistake game designers make. History is littered with the corpses of "WoW killers" in the MMORPG genre and nearly all of them touted PvP as their killer feature, usually some form of world PvP. And it never works. Even WoW largely moved away from world PvP in favour of sandboxed PvP (ie arena, battlegrounds). This focus on PvP is my biggest concern…

I would counter this and say that my greatest time playing MMOs in my youth was the UO days where outside of cities, everything was pretty lawless. In the early stages you might run into a player killer intermittently while out mining or harvesting whatever other material or in a dungeon but the community formed around that aspect was really cool. There was a bounty hunting system where killed players could put cash…

> I would counter this and say that...

You cannot counter somebody's preference with another preference.

> Killers would also be permanently marked red in their name and banned from cities via the guard system.

...and you are also missing the roleplay aspect of this -- "I am an outlaw!" -- that a lot of people enjoy and get deliberately flagged in order to experience it.

What you describe hasn't been happening in most MMORPGs that tried to have a world PvP. Maybe it happened where you were -- and I'd argue it happened for a limited time. But the points of your parent commenter still stand. It's a gaming dream that just never materializes due to human nature.

Game devs assume that the players will do things that make sense or reward them, and that assumption fails every single time.

Re: Star Citizen Progress Tracker v1.0

#217

Post by pdimitar »

afrodc_ wrote: post #208
vkou wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There was a bounty hunting system where killed players could put cash on the head of the killer. What stops a griefer from just putting cash on the head of someone they want to torment?

I remember you would explicitly be presented a screen after you were killed by a player where you could take your funds from the bank to put towards the bounty of the person who killed you.

"Create a problem, sell a solution".

Re: Star Citizen Progress Tracker v1.0

#218

Post by screecwe »

wavefunction wrote: post #136
screecwe wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They haven't changed engines. Lumberyard is just a fork of CryEngine 3.8

They had to adapt the changes they had made to CryEngine to Lumberyard which were different versions of CryEngine if I recall correctly.

CIG had stopped implementing new CryEngine changes at 3.7. So they just had to include the changes from 3.7 to 3.8(where Lumberyard forked).

They said it took 3 engineers one weekend of work, using a diffchecker.

Re: Star Citizen Progress Tracker v1.0

#219

Post by pdimitar »

WorldMaker wrote: post #181
cletus wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hot take: trying to appeal to both PvP and PvE players is the biggest mistake game designers make. History is littered with the corpses of "WoW killers" in the MMORPG genre and nearly all of them touted PvP as their killer feature, usually some form of world PvP. And it never works. Even WoW largely moved away from world PvP in favour of sandboxed PvP (ie arena, battlegrounds). This focus on PvP is my biggest concern…

> The reason it doesn't work is because of people. People do things in PvP because there are no consequences. The reason so many games want "as open as possible" PvP as possible is because of people, too. There are plenty of people who's most fun in any multiplayer comes from acting upon other players and making other players miserable is a very "rewarding" action to them. That's an entire quadrant of players (Killer…

> I get the impression that many of those vocal "Killer" players that strongly prefer open world PvP are possibly over-represented in MMO design efforts.

That's precisely correct. I've been in WoW from 2007 to 2012 and you could tell that the people who loved ruining the fun for everybody else were the most vocal in the forums. They also became quite good in painting it with innocent colors: "think of the roleplaying aspect, are you not an RPG anymore?", "the world feels more vibrant and live", "fights for resources happen in the real world, let's have a realistic game" etc.

While in reality they simply enjoy obstructing other people's gaming. And this has been evident for so many years, and it has been known that these people are the minority -- it's truly puzzling why they haven't been shut down, hard, at least a decade ago.

The only good explanation that I have ever found was: part of the game devs are those griefers, and they defend the open-world PvP on internal meetings.

---

The other kinds of players are indeed much more quiet. I personally started playing WoW because I wanted an RPG and I didn't care about the MMO aspect for a long time. But it's what the market had available as the best game in the genre at the time. My regret from back then is that I didn't aggressively scan the market in more details. I surely would have found a single-player RPG to my liking.

Re: Star Citizen Progress Tracker v1.0

#220

Post by pdimitar »

tomc1985 wrote: post #192
cletus wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hot take: trying to appeal to both PvP and PvE players is the biggest mistake game designers make. History is littered with the corpses of "WoW killers" in the MMORPG genre and nearly all of them touted PvP as their killer feature, usually some form of world PvP. And it never works. Even WoW largely moved away from world PvP in favour of sandboxed PvP (ie arena, battlegrounds). This focus on PvP is my biggest concern…

Honestly I really enjoyed open PvP when I played WoW what now seems like ages ago. It really adds a lot of interesting tension when I'd encounter players from the opposing faction. Are they hostile? Do they see me? Should I try and stealth kill them? Are they just passing through? Eventually one learns to deal with the murderhobos and cope. Then it becomes even more fun.

For 5 years in WoW I only learned to hate those who were ruining my idea of gaming fun. I wasn't marked PvP (PvE servers) but I occasionally found a quest hub that I needed and of course, all NPCs were killed.

It's one of the reasons I left WoW. I don't want to be at the mercy of somebody like you who creatively invents a beautiful justification for stopping me to have my gaming fun.

I am sure whatever it is you are telling to yourself makes sense. But not to me.

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