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Parse, Don't Validate (2019)

lexi-lambda.github.io

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Re: Parse, Don't Validate (2019)

#11

Post by thereare5lights »

ukj wrote: post #4
pwdisswordfish8 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point being, the converse of ‘parsing is validation’ is not true.

The word "is" implies an isomorphism. If you see it differently you are implicitly assuming a non-formalist perspective on what "validation" means. Tell us about it.

> The word "is" implies an isomorphism.

Are you talking about a bijective mapping or are you saying it's a synonym for identical?

Because the former doesn't make any sense here and the latter is not true.

Red is a color does not imply that all colors are red.

Re: Parse, Don't Validate (2019)

#12

Post by [deleted] »

ukj wrote: post #4
pwdisswordfish8 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point being, the converse of ‘parsing is validation’ is not true.

The word "is" implies an isomorphism. If you see it differently you are implicitly assuming a non-formalist perspective on what "validation" means. Tell us about it.

[deleted]

Re: Parse, Don't Validate (2019)

#13

Post by pwdisswordfish8 »

ukj wrote: post #4
pwdisswordfish8 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point being, the converse of ‘parsing is validation’ is not true.

The word "is" implies an isomorphism. If you see it differently you are implicitly assuming a non-formalist perspective on what "validation" means. Tell us about it.

‘A square is a rectangle’ means squares are isomorphic to rectangles?

Re: Parse, Don't Validate (2019)

#14

Post by errnesto »

Attummm wrote: post #8

That's how the validation tool for Python Maat works. By creating a completely new dictionary. https://github.com/Attumm/Maat

For js / typescript I like: https://github.com/paperhive/fefe

basically ist’s just functions that take a value of one type and return a other one

Re: Parse, Don't Validate (2019)

#15

Post by mirekrusin »

In typescript parsing/asserting types with combinators works very well merging runtime with static type system [0], it has to be used at i/o boundary, then it enters static type system guarantee and no assertions are necessary, makes very nice codebase.

[0] https://github.com/appliedblockchain/assert-combinators

Re: Parse, Don't Validate (2019)

#16

Post by ukj »

thereare5lights wrote: post #11
ukj wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The word "is" implies an isomorphism. If you see it differently you are implicitly assuming a non-formalist perspective on what "validation" means. Tell us about it.

> The word "is" implies an isomorphism. Are you talking about a bijective mapping or are you saying it's a synonym for identical? Because the former doesn't make any sense here and the latter is not true. Red is a color does not imply that all colors are red.

I am talking about the polymorphic use of the verb "is" during the process of formalization.

"Red is a color" can be formalized as "Red is a type of color" or "Red is member of set Colors".

You can't formalize "Color is red" because it doesn't mean anything.

When I say "Parsing is validation" I am using the verb "is" to mean an isomorphism.

Re: Parse, Don't Validate (2019)

#17

Post by [deleted] »

ukj wrote: post #10
codetrotter wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The word “is” is also often used informally to mean “is a kind of”.

"A kind of" is precisely its formal use from the PoV of a type theorist. Two things are the same type of thing if they share all of their extensional properties. That is what it means for two things to be identical/equal.

[deleted]

Re: Parse, Don't Validate (2019)

#18

Post by squiddev »

cjfd wrote: post #5
ukj wrote: post #2

Software Engineers: Parse, don't validate. Mathematicians: Parsing is validation https://gallais.github.io/pdf/draft_sigbovik21.pdf

Software engineers like efficiently running software. Mathematicians like beautiful definitions. Scientists like non-trivial discoveries. This paper.... uh.... what exactly is it good for? I suppose it could be kind of nice as some kind of undergraduate paper writing project kind of thing but it looks too professional for that.... I am kind of at a loss why this was written. Maybe it is some strange kind of satire...…

It's written for sigbovik 2021 [1][2], which is very much a joke conference. Other papers this year were "Lowestcase and Uppestcase letters: Advances in Derp Learning" and "On the dire importance of mru caches for human survival (against Skynet)".

[1]: http://www.sigbovik.org/ [2]: http://www.sigbovik.org/2021/proceedings.pdf

Re: Parse, Don't Validate (2019)

#19

Post by Drup »

ukj wrote: post #2

Software Engineers: Parse, don't validate. Mathematicians: Parsing is validation https://gallais.github.io/pdf/draft_sigbovik21.pdf

To everyone in this subthread: sigbovik is a conference published every 1st of April.

This paper is an April's fool joke. I didn't think people could take that one seriously. I guess it's a good April's fool then. :)

Re: Parse, Don't Validate (2019)

#20

Post by m3koval »

cjfd wrote: post #5
ukj wrote: post #2

Software Engineers: Parse, don't validate. Mathematicians: Parsing is validation https://gallais.github.io/pdf/draft_sigbovik21.pdf

Software engineers like efficiently running software. Mathematicians like beautiful definitions. Scientists like non-trivial discoveries. This paper.... uh.... what exactly is it good for? I suppose it could be kind of nice as some kind of undergraduate paper writing project kind of thing but it looks too professional for that.... I am kind of at a loss why this was written. Maybe it is some strange kind of satire...…

SIGBOVIK is a parody of computer science conferences. It's a running joke hosted on April Fools Day every year at CMU - and apparently a quite convincing one. ;-)

Source: I attended SIGBOVIK a few times in grad school.

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