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Why Did Congress Just Vote to Break Up Big Tech?

mattstoller.substack.com

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Re: Why Did Congress Just Vote to Break Up Big Tech?

#71

Notably absent of is any recognition that we live today in a very global marketplace. FAANG companies are all American. If they are broken into pieces by the US government, what if that just provides opportunity for non-US companies to now fill those ecological niches? The end result will be the US anti-trust action accomplished nothing but enabling foreign replacements.

I assumed people generally thought the opposite was true - if you let them grow fat and bloated US tech monopolies will lose their ability to compete internationally.

Relative to its size, the highly consolidated US car industry isn't a great exporter, for example, and even required bailouts to survive.

Re: Why Did Congress Just Vote to Break Up Big Tech?

#72

> The ACCESS Act mandates that big tech firms have to make their systems open to competitors and business rivals, in the same way that AT&T customers can talk to T-Mobile customers, or users of different email systems can communicate with one another. Okay, this is plausible, but it can turn into all kinds of mess as federated systems aren't simpler to design, build, or operate. For example, how would Signal inter-co…

>For example, how would Signal inter-communicate with e2ee intact with say, Facebook Messenger?

Would it be the worst thing if these went away and were replaced with open protocols that do the same thing? I say go back to systems that work together and tear down the walled gardens.

Re: Why Did Congress Just Vote to Break Up Big Tech?

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if the result of breaking up US monopolies is their replacement by non-US monopolies? How is that better? I'd think very, very hard about crippling US companies in a global marketplace. So far, I don't even see any discussion about it.

Considering how many of those big tech companies rely on pushing ads, does it really matter whether they’re based in the US or not? Either way, they’re revenue is from selling out their users.

For tax reasons , probably yes.

Re: Why Did Congress Just Vote to Break Up Big Tech?

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strongly agree. We're seeing legislation target the sector of the economy with some of the highest productivity ever seen in human history. Congress needs to look at the sectors with the lowest productivity growth! Home construction, infrastructure, health care, and eduction. Here's a great place for congressional investigators to start: https://pedestrianobservations.com/2019/03/03/why-american-c... Though, in reali…

I'm sticking my head out a bit here given that this is HN... But I largely attribute the high productivity of tech to the simple nature of software as opposed to the tech industry being comprised of the most productive workers and efficient management. The flexibility and efficiency of software is insane compared to even just the hardware side of it, much less medicine or home building.

Sure, but what does it matter? The US played its cards right and got a thriving tech industry, whereas many other countries did not. Whether it came from individuals or regulation or the nature of software isn't super important.

Being in the position of having dominant global tech conglomerates be American has immense value. Do we want to preserve that, or destroy it?

Re: Why Did Congress Just Vote to Break Up Big Tech?

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm highly skeptical of that prediction. The EU are hardly slouches with respect to anti-monopoly actions. Chinese and Russian companies are subject to intense fear-mongering (not that every criticism is invalid) and are unlikely to take the place of FAANG. And I don't foresee other Asian, African, Middle-Eastern, or companies from UK or the Americas achieving huge monopolies before actions could be taken against the…

What do you think about ByteDance? The crown jewel of social media no longer belongs to the US.

TikTok is a curious one. The Chinese service appears to be a completely separate content silo. And Musical.ly grew in the US without needing antitrust action against FB or Snap or anyone else, in the same way that those companies displaced others. The bar to entry to that marketplace is already low, I don't think it's really relevant to discussions around Amazon or Google or MS or even Apple.

Re: Why Did Congress Just Vote to Break Up Big Tech?

#76

> The ACCESS Act mandates that big tech firms have to make their systems open to competitors and business rivals, in the same way that AT&T customers can talk to T-Mobile customers, or users of different email systems can communicate with one another. Okay, this is plausible, but it can turn into all kinds of mess as federated systems aren't simpler to design, build, or operate. For example, how would Signal inter-co…

>> > The nondiscrimination bill is intended to ban the ability to big tech firms to preference their own products, the way Google substitutes its own reviews for Yelp reviews, even if Yelp’s reviews are better.

Oh god please no. I’ve been waiting years for Apple Maps to lose drop the gosh forsaken existence that is Yelp into a burning sun.

Re: Why Did Congress Just Vote to Break Up Big Tech?

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm highly skeptical of that prediction. The EU are hardly slouches with respect to anti-monopoly actions. Chinese and Russian companies are subject to intense fear-mongering (not that every criticism is invalid) and are unlikely to take the place of FAANG. And I don't foresee other Asian, African, Middle-Eastern, or companies from UK or the Americas achieving huge monopolies before actions could be taken against the…

What do you think about ByteDance? The crown jewel of social media no longer belongs to the US.

Are you referring to TikTok as the crown jewel? I don't see how that description fits. Regardless:

* Where's the monopoly? TikTok is one slice of the social media pie, unlike Facebook's ownership of Whatsapp/Messenger, Facebook.com, Instagram (with its Snapchat lite features).

* What are ByteDance doing with TikTok that's different from what US companies do with their social network data? e.g., Twitter. As a side-note one could argue Twitter aqui-killed Vine, setting the stage for TikTok.

* If desired, couldn't the Biden administration immediately return to the Trump-era policy of requiring ByteDance to sell a substantial part of their TikTok business to a US company? Which is a remedy that US companies complain about when China does it.

I see far fewer problems with TikTok's associations with China than I do with Facebook's ownership of many slices of the social media pie, never mind that the US has many 3-letter agencies hoovering up data from US owned social media networks, even about US citizens (at the very least all it takes is an interaction with a non-US account for the US account data to be considered fair game).

Re: Why Did Congress Just Vote to Break Up Big Tech?

#78

Notably absent of is any recognition that we live today in a very global marketplace. FAANG companies are all American. If they are broken into pieces by the US government, what if that just provides opportunity for non-US companies to now fill those ecological niches? The end result will be the US anti-trust action accomplished nothing but enabling foreign replacements.

I'm highly skeptical of that prediction. The EU are hardly slouches with respect to anti-monopoly actions. Chinese and Russian companies are subject to intense fear-mongering (not that every criticism is invalid) and are unlikely to take the place of FAANG. And I don't foresee other Asian, African, Middle-Eastern, or companies from UK or the Americas achieving huge monopolies before actions could be taken against the…

Chinese entities seem to be treated like a special case / emerging market/industry, by even the most senior E.U. member states. This is in contrast to the U.S. / U.S. entities, which are viewed / treated as a mature (i.e. low/no-growth) market.

The linear outcome of this ongoing state of informal submission is a rise in effronteries / audacious behavior at the official, international level, such as https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/12/philippines-wi...

"China has said it will not accept a ruling against it in a key international legal case over strategic reefs and atolls that Beijing claims would give it control over disputed waters of the South China Sea.

The judgment by an international tribunal in The Hague came down overwhelmingly in favour of claims by the Philippines and is likely to increase global diplomatic pressure on Beijing to scale back military expansion in the area. By depriving certain outcrops of territorial-generating status, the ruling from the permanent court of arbitration effectively punches holes in China’s all-encompassing “nine-dash” line that stretches deep into the South China Sea."

Five years later, it appears the case was quietly forgotten by all.

* * *

Or how about this, more recently: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-france...

"... members of the French Senate demanded answers at a hearing with the foreign minister as to why an article they said was fake and cast them in a bad light was still up on the Chinese embassy website [...] In the post, an unnamed diplomat suggests that careworkers in Western nursing homes - using the French term EHPAD - had abandoned their jobs, leaving residents to die."

Re: Why Did Congress Just Vote to Break Up Big Tech?

#79
I don't understand this movement at all. It seems very, very short sighted and also misdirected. The most toxic marketplace and social elements of some of these companies is their business model, not their scale/size.

Breaking them up into pieces doesn't fix their deleterious business models and only opens the door for non-US entities who remain scaled/vertically-integrated to become the dominant forces in the market. Either that or this will necessitate passing future protectionist legislation to keep out foreign competition, which I'm both skeptical is actually a good idea in general or that the US has the actual resolve to do so.

What problem is supposed to be solved by breaking these companies up? It doesn't make any sense to me, and I say this as someone who is generally deeply disturbed by much of what is enabled by some of these firms, so this isn't an endorsement of these companies. It's an indictment of the approach.

Re: Why Did Congress Just Vote to Break Up Big Tech?

#80

Notably absent of is any recognition that we live today in a very global marketplace. FAANG companies are all American. If they are broken into pieces by the US government, what if that just provides opportunity for non-US companies to now fill those ecological niches? The end result will be the US anti-trust action accomplished nothing but enabling foreign replacements.

Great! As a modern resident of planet earth, I’m not opposed to international competition. I’d love for FAANG not to be able to crush or acquire competitors, regardless of their country of origin.

I bet, based on recent history, that most of the upstarts would be from the US. If that isn’t the case, it will be a wake up call and hopefully the US will rise to the occasion.

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