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Slamming political rivals may be the most effective way to go viral

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Re: Slamming political rivals may be the most effective way to go viral

#91

Post by lotsofpulp »

smaddox wrote: post #80
azinman2 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ranked voting also can have unexpected surprises as well. Every system has flaws, and if we open things up even more, I believe we’ll just get a collection of even more radicalized parties who only care about a single issue. At least with two parties there’s inner tension they need to modulate.

RCV can have unexpected surprises, but STAR voting resolves all such issues with RCV.

As far as I know, STAR voting is a form of RCV. However, the Fairvote organization has advertised RCV with instant runoff voting as the counting method as being RCV.

Re: Slamming political rivals may be the most effective way to go viral

#92

Post by Barrin92 »

trentnix wrote: post #28

Well yes, because all political reporting is basically TMZ for boring, ugly people. It molds politics into some fantasy world of rap battles and gang fights rather than a productive discussion about making good policy. And if your first impulse is to think well yeah because the other side blah blah , you're part of the problem too.

>It molds politics into some fantasy world of rap battles and gang fights

Politics is a world of rap battles and gang fights. It's war by other means. That's the fundamental essence of anything political. The boring, ugly people are the wonks who actually think politics is about 'good policy consensus' and have been spending a little too much time on Laputa.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laputa#Inhabitants

Re: Slamming political rivals may be the most effective way to go viral

#93

Post by nickff »

smaddox wrote: post #80
azinman2 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ranked voting also can have unexpected surprises as well. Every system has flaws, and if we open things up even more, I believe we’ll just get a collection of even more radicalized parties who only care about a single issue. At least with two parties there’s inner tension they need to modulate.

RCV can have unexpected surprises, but STAR voting resolves all such issues with RCV.

There is no 'best' voting system, only different trade-offs.[1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow%27s_impossibility_theore...

Re: Slamming political rivals may be the most effective way to go viral

#94

Post by krapp »

Barrin92 wrote: post #92
trentnix wrote: post #28

Well yes, because all political reporting is basically TMZ for boring, ugly people. It molds politics into some fantasy world of rap battles and gang fights rather than a productive discussion about making good policy. And if your first impulse is to think well yeah because the other side blah blah , you're part of the problem too.

>It molds politics into some fantasy world of rap battles and gang fights Politics is a world of rap battles and gang fights. It's war by other means. That's the fundamental essence of anything political. The boring, ugly people are the wonks who actually think politics is about 'good policy consensus' and have been spending a little too much time on Laputa. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laputa#Inhabitants

Basically, politics: https://youtu.be/NUC2EQvdzmY

Re: Slamming political rivals may be the most effective way to go viral

#95

Post by vkou »

nemo44x wrote: post #14
lotsofpulp wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The use of slang like dunking, slamming, murdering, and so on by adults in a professional arena is embarrassing.

We are not a serious country any more.

I don't think you would be able to find a single time period in the history of this country where yellow political journalism was not wildly popular.

Re: Slamming political rivals may be the most effective way to go viral

#96

Post by yesenadam »

vkou wrote: post #82
hackeraccount wrote: post #33

Eh, the easiest most effective arguments are also the most toxic. The people who disagree with me aren't just wrong but they're disingenuous liars with an agenda so terrible even they won't admit to it. The people who disagree with me don't even understand what they're saying because they're just mindlessly repeating things they have been indoctrinated to believe. Neither of those will convince anyone of anything but…

There's a reason for this. The reason for it is that you don't win elections by convincing the other side that they are wrong, and they should vote for you. You win elections by convincing your side to show up. And the best way to do it is by telling your side that giving the victory to your opponent is voting for a Trump.

> you don't win elections by convincing the other side that they are wrong, and they should vote for you.

> You win elections by convincing your side to show up.

Well, in my country and many others, voting is compulsory, so we don't have this problem.

Re: Slamming political rivals may be the most effective way to go viral

#97

Post by guerrilla »

vkou wrote: post #82
hackeraccount wrote: post #33

Eh, the easiest most effective arguments are also the most toxic. The people who disagree with me aren't just wrong but they're disingenuous liars with an agenda so terrible even they won't admit to it. The people who disagree with me don't even understand what they're saying because they're just mindlessly repeating things they have been indoctrinated to believe. Neither of those will convince anyone of anything but…

There's a reason for this. The reason for it is that you don't win elections by convincing the other side that they are wrong, and they should vote for you. You win elections by convincing your side to show up. And the best way to do it is by telling your side that giving the victory to your opponent is voting for a Trump.

In the US*. People flow betweem parties much more in Europe.

Re: Slamming political rivals may be the most effective way to go viral

#98

Post by yesenadam »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #30
trentnix wrote: post #28

Well yes, because all political reporting is basically TMZ for boring, ugly people. It molds politics into some fantasy world of rap battles and gang fights rather than a productive discussion about making good policy. And if your first impulse is to think well yeah because the other side blah blah , you're part of the problem too.

>>> political reporting is basically TMZ for boring, ugly people. Can I get that on a TShirt please ? (And yes, was it Nietscheze who says politicians are just sales people for their manifestos?)

> yes, was it Nietscheze who says politicians are just sales people for their manifestos?

I strongled doubted it was Nietzsche, so I googled the phrase "politicians are just sales people for their manifestos" (in quotes), and there was one result—your comment. It's yours!

Re: Slamming political rivals may be the most effective way to go viral

#99

Post by dragonwriter »

vkou wrote: post #82
hackeraccount wrote: post #33

Eh, the easiest most effective arguments are also the most toxic. The people who disagree with me aren't just wrong but they're disingenuous liars with an agenda so terrible even they won't admit to it. The people who disagree with me don't even understand what they're saying because they're just mindlessly repeating things they have been indoctrinated to believe. Neither of those will convince anyone of anything but…

There's a reason for this. The reason for it is that you don't win elections by convincing the other side that they are wrong, and they should vote for you. You win elections by convincing your side to show up. And the best way to do it is by telling your side that giving the victory to your opponent is voting for a Trump.

> The reason for it is that you don't win elections by convincing the other side that they are wrong, and they should vote for you.

> You win elections by convincing your side to show up.

And the other side not to, either voluntarily or by targeted voter suppression and disenfranchisement. At least, that’s all true in the US, but its mostly artifacts of a strongly-structurally-reinforced two-party system.

In multiparty democracy, positive turnout tactics over persuasion is less effective because the activation energy to move to another party is smaller because you don’t just have polar opposites, and negative turnout tactics are less effective because you’ve got more targets to suppress. So persuasion is more important.

Re: Slamming political rivals may be the most effective way to go viral

#100

Post by anm89 »

0-_-0 wrote: post #41
anm89 wrote: post #8

I've noticed this hilarious thing where within the left leaning media sphere, the only verbs that Ocasio-Cortez and to a lesser degree Bernie ever engage in is "slamming". They don't eat, sleep, debate, propose, or discuss. They just slam 24/7. I googled her to verify the spelling on her name and the first headline was: "Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez slams the lack of diversity in an all-white group of lawmakers who draft…

Hmm, let's try this in Google: "Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez slams": About 73,300 results "Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez eats": About 109 results "Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez sleeps": 1 result "Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez debates": About 173 results "Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez proposes": About 5,880 results "Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez discusses": About 1,150 results Damn, you were right! Also surprised that AOC never sleeps.

ha, amazing
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