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Panasonic sells its $3.6B Tesla stake

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Re: Panasonic sells its $3.6B Tesla stake

#151

Post by TX0098812 »

JPKab wrote: post #100
halotrope wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just look at Norway and the Netherlands which seem to have a 2-3 year lead on EV adoption. Volkswagen brands have already surpassed Tesla sales there. Tesla makes a terrific product and they single handedly provoked that change we are seeing now. However, the German and Korean brands make great cars too. Given the choice I would trade good build quality, some more physical buttons and a quiet cabin at highway speeds…

They are catching up, but currently the VW and other EVs, with the exception of Porsche, are pretty inferior. (A notable exception is Hyundai's Ioniq5, which is very impressive). My biggest concern with other auto manufacturers EV projects is how absolutely abysmal these companies are at building software. It's just not even close. And software makes a HUGE difference with EVs. My wife's Audi has absolute shit softwa…

Most companies struggle to build well understood products like apps and web sites. The leadership of most organizations is unable to organize the relevant work because they don't know anything about such products. If a company struggles to build an app, a product like an EV is a major undertaking.

Re: Panasonic sells its $3.6B Tesla stake

#152

Post by nickik »

deelowe wrote: post #21
paulpauper wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People said this 3 years ago too, arguing Tesla was too big. guess what: it got way bigger. Tesla is forcing other brands to have to adapt or die. They are way behind Tesla in technology, infrastructure, and marketshare for electric vehicle and battery tech.

"The market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent." And it will continue to go up until it doesn't. Maybe Tesla has a vault of unicorn blood and is just waiting for the perfect time to unveil it, but as a car company, their stock valuation makes absolutely no sense. It would take a miracle for Tesla to overtake more than all 3 top automakers combined. There is zero indication this has any possibili…

Tesla is very different from other car companies.

- Tesla owns a large global infrastructure for charging that they produce themselves. And produce a lot of home and destination charges as well.

- Tesla has a very large expanding internal battery production and will be one of the bigger battery manufacturers in the world themselves.

- Other car companies down own their distribution channels and thus make lower margin per car

- Tesla is market leading in grid storage a gigantic market that is about to grow for the next 20 years straight

- Tesla is leading in home solar/storage market that will also be growing for then ext 20 years

- Tesla has the potential leading in self-driving (yes make your jokes now HN)

- Legacy car makers actually make a huge amount of their money from out of warranty part sales, a channel that Tesla has yet to take advantage of because most of the time they have far more new cars and service is still losing money for them. Steady state the huge service network they are building will be very profitable.

Tesla has the clear potential to continue growing 50%+ with improving margin (localization of production, vertical integration) just with production capacity that's already in production. While the other car makers are at series risk of having a huge amount of legacy infrastructure that is losing value while their still large ICE production could very well turn negative margin as volume decrease economics of scale.

You can still call it to high, but saying its made up nonsense is equally incorrect.

Go look at the Wallstreet models, the stock price is defensible even with not all that aggressive assumptions for the next 10 years. Far less aggressive then Tesla internal targets.

It all depends if you believe Tesla can continue to execute. And what position they will be in by 2030 and then what you believe the next 10 years will look like.

Re: Panasonic sells its $3.6B Tesla stake

#153

Post by thehappypm »

Shadonototro wrote: post #142

sounds like people figured how to scam the US pump and dump their stocks

Just... no. That's now what happened here at all. Panasonic invested very early in Tesla, as a way to help give them more runway and just generally be a good partner to a buyer of their batteries. The price of Tesla stock has nothing to do with anything Panasonic did to "pump it up". They probably are just as astounded as the rest of the world by how the Tesla stock is, and decided to cash it out rather than let a meme stock own a huge chunk of their balance sheet, all while making a 9-figure profit.

Re: Panasonic sells its $3.6B Tesla stake

#154

Post by hef19898 »

njharman wrote: post #60
FartyMcFarter wrote: post #3

It seems like a smart decision once you look at car companies' market caps: Tesla: $651 B Toyota: $288 B Volkswagen: $152 B Daimler / Mercedes: $99 B Ford: $60 B

TSLA is a battery company. Autos are just the means to and end. Their market cap represents how well they are positioned to capitalize on the end of Fossil Fuel Age.

Isn't Panasonic the battery company?

Re: Panasonic sells its $3.6B Tesla stake

#155

Post by nickik »

Closi wrote: post #78
shiftpgdn wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I own both a Audi e-Tron and Tesla Model Y (well, it’s the wife’s but you get the idea.) Taking a road trip in the Audi is all but out of the question because of how awful the charging infrastructure is. That is not say nothing in regards to the litany of design flaws, poor consumption, and miserable dealer support with the Audi. Tesla is easily 10-15 years ahead of all other manufacturers.

> Tesla is easily 10-15 years ahead of all other manufacturers. Well the majority view is that the Porsche Tycan is a better car, but at a different price point - considering the (im)maturity of the market 10-15 years seems a stretch, particularly considering there are some great cars coming out like the mini electric.

100k car is better then 40k in a few metrics. Wow what an achievement.

Model 3 Performance can keep up with 120K+ Tycan.

And Model S leaves a Taycan behind it like a the Taycan was a Ford Focus.

> particularly considering there are some great cars

People made the same argument in 2014 and all those cars came out. People made the same argument in 2018 and all those cars came out.

And non of that changed Tesla growth or margin (other then to the positive).

Re: Panasonic sells its $3.6B Tesla stake

#156

Post by nickik »

belter wrote: post #53
FartyMcFarter wrote: post #3

It seems like a smart decision once you look at car companies' market caps: Tesla: $651 B Toyota: $288 B Volkswagen: $152 B Daimler / Mercedes: $99 B Ford: $60 B

Lets add PE Ratios as of last Friday 24 June .... Tesla: 674.98 ( !!!) Volkswagen: 12.70 Daimler/Mercedes: 10.43 Ford: 15.52

PE Ratio is one of the dumbest most irrelevant ways to measure company. At one point Tesla had no PE, then it was 10k and one quarter later it was 1k.

Evaluating growth companies with PE is idiotic.

Re: Panasonic sells its $3.6B Tesla stake

#157

Post by nickik »

shiftpgdn wrote: post #72
systemvoltage wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a few more in the pipes: - Rivian (Private) - Lucid (Private) - Arrival (ARVL): $10B - Nikola (NKLA): $7B - Canoo (GOEV): $2B - Lordstown Motors (RIDE): $2B Although: > EV Startups Are in Trouble. Investors Don’t Care. https://www.wsj.com/articles/ev-startups-are-in-trouble-inve...

Canoo is the manufacturer to watch. They have the bmw I vehicle team on staff and have been in talks with Apple.

Pretty much all of these have former legacy company teams working for them.

Re: Panasonic sells its $3.6B Tesla stake

#158

Post by nickik »

TX0098812 wrote: post #35

Can anyone explain how Tesla can be valued so high? They're valued twice as high as Toyota at around 1/12 the profits of Toyota. P/E is almost 600 so they'd have to overtake Toyota's profits by a significant margin to justify their valuation. So far this looks like pure hype. However... they are way ahead in terms of technology in a number of areas and I guess they could also make money from things like their super c…

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27634348

Re: Panasonic sells its $3.6B Tesla stake

#159

Post by anthonygd »

shiftpgdn wrote: post #145
Closi wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tesla is easily 10-15 years ahead of all other manufacturers. Well the majority view is that the Porsche Tycan is a better car, but at a different price point - considering the (im)maturity of the market 10-15 years seems a stretch, particularly considering there are some great cars coming out like the mini electric.

I considered the Taycan as a replacement for the e-tron but it has all the same problems as the e-tron. The interior finish and handling dynamics are nicer than Tesla for sure but literally everything else they get wrong. Like I said, they are at least 10 years behind. Here is an example: recently the Audi app which you use to control the car from your phone was down for two weeks for server upgrades. I have worked i…

I'll agree a 2 week outage is insane, but that's hardly an example of the tech being behind. Shitty process sure and lazy software development too.

How about the charge range or stability control? Any idea about the battery's expected life span? What technology do you think Audi is behind on?

My impression has been that Tesla nailed the charging network, charge range and raw straight line performance. Everything else they half-assed, i.e. the stuff I care about on a daily basis feels cheap.

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