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Rally, a novel privacy-first data sharing platform

blog.mozilla.org

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Re: Rally, a novel privacy-first data sharing platform

#101

Post by Nicksil »

Ensorceled wrote: post #88
9wzYQbTYsAIc wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> start with the presumption that some people should get your data Some people do want others to have their data. Dropbox is a great example of a successful business that is built on the idea of sharing data.

Yes, I want to use Dropbox to share my invoice with my client and my client to share the assets from their designer with me. I don't want anybody tracking what websites I visit, articles I read or facebook videos I watch. These are two VERY different definitions of "data", mingling the two is not helpful to discourse.

>I don't want anybody tracking what websites I visit, articles I read or facebook videos I watch.

This whole thing is opt-in, is it not? If you don't want to share your information, you simply do not opt-in.

Re: Rally, a novel privacy-first data sharing platform

#102

Post by yyyk »

9wzYQbTYsAIc wrote: post #74
yyyk wrote: post #38

This is exactly the data a modern Cambridge Analytica would want (e.g. shares, time spent on each post, all correlated to demographics). I hope this platform has controls to ensure that study data isn't misused post-study for non-study purposes, because the FAQ answer isn't so encouraging[0]. [0] https://rally.mozilla.org/how-rally-works/faqs/#what-happens... "With Mozilla’s permission, researchers may retain aggrega…

> Shouldn't you ask the users for permission on using their aggregate data for purposes that could be different to the study they enrolled to? They do, given that you’d have been informed of that before you provided your consent by opting in to Rally data crowdsourcing. > This is exactly the data a modern Cambridge Analytica would want Kind of nice that it’d be in the hands of Mozilla, Princeton University, other tru…

>They do, given that you’d have been informed of that before you provided your consent by opting in to Rally data crowdsourcing.

I haven't tried registering for the study, but I note that an FAQ answer is not enough. Users cannot be expected to search for the FAQ. This needs to be mentioned in the consent form, and not done implicitly 'by opting in' like corporations do.

>Kind of nice that it’d be in the hands of Mozilla, Princeton University, other trusted research partners, and the open web, isn’t it?

The 'open web' is a bit of a nebulous concept, and the CA data was supposedly in the hands of a data scientist at the University of Cambridge.

Re: Rally, a novel privacy-first data sharing platform

#103

Post by grawprog »

>Your data is valuable.

Yet again though we're being asked to give it up for free...

>But for too long, online services have pilfered, swapped, and exploited your data without your awareness. Privacy violations and filter bubbles are all consequences of a surveillance data economy. But what if, instead of companies taking your data without giving you a say, you could select who gets access to your data and put it to work for public good?

So taking and benefitting from my data is alright as long as I'm aware of it?

>But, being “data-empowered” also requires the ability to choose who you want to access your data.

No...being data empowered would mean I'm profitting off my own data, not giving it to companies to profit off of.

>We’re kickstarting the Mozilla Rally research initiative with our first two research collaborator studies. Our first study is “Political and COVID-19 News” and comes from the Princeton team that helped us develop the Rally research initiative. This study examines how people engage with news and misinformation about politics and COVID-19 across online services.

And the first study in this is about politics, that great word again 'misinformation' that gets tossed around everywhere.

So, the first study will be using user data on the news they read and how they interact on social media in regards to politics for what purpose exactly?

This makes the world better how?

>Soon, we’ll also be launching our second academic study, “Beyond the Paywall”, a study, in partnership with Shoshana Vasserman and Greg Martin of the Stanford University Graduate School of Business. It aims to better understand news consumption, what people value in news and the economics that could build a more sustainable ecosystem for newspapers in the online marketplace.

So, the second study is 'how do we make news organizations more money?"

I'm kind of noticing a pattern here...

>With Rally, we’ve built an innovative, consent-driven data sharing platform that puts power back into the hands of people.

No, you've found a way to convince people they should give you their data for 'research that benefits the world' that's in reality thinly veiled market research.

It would be nice if a company could just be fucking honest for once.

This whole blog post should just be:

"Look, at Mozilla we realized we can make money collecting data, we're going to pretend we couldn't just take it from you and give you the option to opt in to make us money."

Seriously, just fucking say it straight.

Re: Rally, a novel privacy-first data sharing platform

#104

Post by Nicksil »

Ensorceled wrote: post #92
9wzYQbTYsAIc wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I haven't read beyond the linked page Then you haven’t yet properly informed yourself. > All this seems reasonable if that's the case, but the page is misselling it. There are limits to how much info you can fit into one page. Marketing pages are built in such a way that they guide you to where the detailed pages are.

>> I haven't read beyond the linked page > Then you haven’t yet properly informed yourself. Then why have the linked page. If it's literally not informative enough than it's just a poorly written press release.

>Then why have the linked page. If it's literally not informative enough than it's just a poorly written press release.

Usually marketing pages will include just enough information and imagery to grab your attention. There will be some links embedded which ultimately lead to more and more information.

Basically, if you're interested in learning more, you'll be motivated to read/click further. If it doesn't interest you, you leave having taken a fraction of the time than had the page been filled with all the details.

Re: Rally, a novel privacy-first data sharing platform

#105

Post by xpe »

elliekelly wrote: post #95
xpe wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand this is a sensitive area, and I understand that reasonable people have good reasons to be concerned. But it seems that you are directing your frustrations at Mozilla unfairly. I find this to be a good definition of privacy: > Privacy is the ability of an individual or group to seclude themselves or information about themselves, and thereby express themselves selectively. - Wikipedia From what I've read,…

Sorry, I definitely did not put as much thought into my comment as I should have and I left out the critical piece of information that really ticked me off. I'm one of the nerds who actually reads the privacy documents and Rally's privacy policy[1] has a section titled "How We Use Your Information" that includes: > improving Mozilla’s existing products and services > creating and developing new products All of the ma…

>> improving Mozilla’s existing products and services

>> creating and developing new products

I agree that these are concerning. They seem out of place. If you want to start a petition asking Mozilla to clarify and/or remove these clauses, I would sign it.

Re: Rally, a novel privacy-first data sharing platform

#106

Post by 9wzYQbTYsAIc »

Ensorceled wrote: post #88
9wzYQbTYsAIc wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> start with the presumption that some people should get your data Some people do want others to have their data. Dropbox is a great example of a successful business that is built on the idea of sharing data.

Yes, I want to use Dropbox to share my invoice with my client and my client to share the assets from their designer with me. I don't want anybody tracking what websites I visit, articles I read or facebook videos I watch. These are two VERY different definitions of "data", mingling the two is not helpful to discourse.

> These are two VERY different definitions of "data", mingling the two is not helpful to discourse.

Indeed, data has complex nuances that are sometimes missed.

Let’s not mingle data intended for advertisement with data intended for social science research.

Re: Rally, a novel privacy-first data sharing platform

#107

Post by xpe »

9wzYQbTYsAIc wrote: post #100
elliekelly wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I definitely did not put as much thought into my comment as I should have and I left out the critical piece of information that really ticked me off. I'm one of the nerds who actually reads the privacy documents and Rally's privacy policy[1] has a section titled "How We Use Your Information" that includes: > improving Mozilla’s existing products and services > creating and developing new products All of the ma…

> If Rally is transparent about how your data is used If Rally was not transparent about this, then you would not have seen that and would not have gotten emotionally triggered by it. But given that you’ve identified a visceral opposition to that, you should consider not opting-in to that particular study.

> But given that you’ve identified a visceral opposition to that, you should consider not opting-in to that particular study.

The commenter referenced Rally's privacy policy. It is not specific to a particular study.

Re: Rally, a novel privacy-first data sharing platform

#108

Post by Nicksil »

hndirect wrote: post #65

Sorry if this is too off topic, but is there a name for the art style they are using in the illustrations? It seems to be all over corporate sites these days.

"Corporate Memphis," perhaps?

Previous HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27107820

Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_Memphis

Edit: I had this open in a tab for ~20 mins. which is why I didn't see caseyohara's reply before submitting mine. Please excuse the redundancy.

Re: Rally, a novel privacy-first data sharing platform

#109

Post by elliekelly »

9wzYQbTYsAIc wrote: post #100
elliekelly wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I definitely did not put as much thought into my comment as I should have and I left out the critical piece of information that really ticked me off. I'm one of the nerds who actually reads the privacy documents and Rally's privacy policy[1] has a section titled "How We Use Your Information" that includes: > improving Mozilla’s existing products and services > creating and developing new products All of the ma…

> If Rally is transparent about how your data is used If Rally was not transparent about this, then you would not have seen that and would not have gotten emotionally triggered by it. But given that you’ve identified a visceral opposition to that, you should consider not opting-in to that particular study.

I'm one of the very few people who actually read all of the disclosure documents. I wouldn't be surprised if I were the only person who read these documents in their entirety aside from the document drafter(s) themselves. And this wasn't in the privacy notice for a study but for the Rally browser extension. Rather confusingly, Rally has one privacy policy and each individual study will have their own, separate, privacy policy in addition to the Rally privacy policy.

Re: Rally, a novel privacy-first data sharing platform

#110

Post by 9wzYQbTYsAIc »

chobytes wrote: post #69
jonathanmayer wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Princeton research collaborator here. Glad to answer questions about Rally. > What "data"? Browsing history? Identity? Something else? That depends on the Rally study, since research questions differ and studies are required to practice data minimization. Each study is opt in, with both short-form and long-form explanations. Academic studies also involve IRB-approved informed consent. Take a look at our launch study…

Personally I don't think that researchers have any more business doing this kind of surveillance than Google and company do. The idea that this will benefit society seems naive to me. I feel like it will only serve to legitimize the practice by putting ostensibly trustworthy faces on the packaging.

> Personally I don't think that researchers have any more business doing this kind of surveillance than Google and company do.

As other commenters have noted, then you should decline to opt-in to participating in research such as this.

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