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As the Pandemic Recedes, Millions of Workers Are Saying 'I Quit'

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Re: As the Pandemic Recedes, Millions of Workers Are Saying 'I Quit'

#241

Post by HarryHirsch »

Robotbeat wrote: post #157
HarryHirsch wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's baffling, haven't people got friends?

It’s hard to make friends as an adult. Especially: 1) If you don’t have kids (socializing with other parents). 2) Don’t go to church/synagogue/etc (church attendance in decline) 3) Do not live where you grew up. (People chase opportunities in other cities.) 4) Aren’t in school any more. Neighbor friends are also possible, but it can take many years for people to become comfortable enough to be friends, and due to #3,…

Contemporary architecture doesn't help. In 70's developments houses have front porches, but sometime in the 90's they turned houses around, and now everyone sits on their back deck or their games room in their cardboard palace. You don't encounter people any more when you are walking the dog.

Re: As the Pandemic Recedes, Millions of Workers Are Saying 'I Quit'

#242

Post by Apocryphon »

SavageBeast wrote: post #154
kingsuper20 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Imagine living in a society where basic income is guaranteed no matter what, and even its worst places - its prison cells - compare favorably to the finest hotels of other countries." What I see are bored young males hanging out and getting in fights, not a whole generation of people learning cuneiform in their newfound free time.

Absolutely. There is no free lunch. UBI comes on the backs of the value adding class of society. Some people actually LIKE to work, hard as it is for some to believe. The Value Adding Class will have privilege thrust upon them in the form of paying for those young males to hang out and get in fights. Ive had the dubious honor of knowing more than one kid who was never going to have to work a single day in life owing…

> The Value Adding Class will have privilege thrust upon them in the form of paying for those young males to hang out and get in fights.

If anything existing basic income experiments have revealed the opposite:

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/stockton-ca-gave-residents...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-03-05/what-did-...

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/06/richmond-califo...

Re: As the Pandemic Recedes, Millions of Workers Are Saying 'I Quit'

#243

Post by Apocryphon »

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #235
SavageBeast wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. There is no free lunch. UBI comes on the backs of the value adding class of society. Some people actually LIKE to work, hard as it is for some to believe. The Value Adding Class will have privilege thrust upon them in the form of paying for those young males to hang out and get in fights. Ive had the dubious honor of knowing more than one kid who was never going to have to work a single day in life owing…

I've not seen any serious proposals to implement ubi before automation has substantially increased unemployment. In that case, not only are people idle, but also desperate. Fwiw, I don't mind working at all, but in an ideal world, my work would be varied and my hours would be of my choosing. Sure, you can get that if you freelance, but most corporate jobs want 8h/d 40h/w, at least, and is that how anyone wants to spe…

Read the results of actual basic income pilot programs and you'll see that people are far from idle.

Re: As the Pandemic Recedes, Millions of Workers Are Saying 'I Quit'

#244

Post by goatse-4-u »

SavageBeast wrote: post #154
kingsuper20 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Imagine living in a society where basic income is guaranteed no matter what, and even its worst places - its prison cells - compare favorably to the finest hotels of other countries." What I see are bored young males hanging out and getting in fights, not a whole generation of people learning cuneiform in their newfound free time.

Absolutely. There is no free lunch. UBI comes on the backs of the value adding class of society. Some people actually LIKE to work, hard as it is for some to believe. The Value Adding Class will have privilege thrust upon them in the form of paying for those young males to hang out and get in fights. Ive had the dubious honor of knowing more than one kid who was never going to have to work a single day in life owing…

.

Re: As the Pandemic Recedes, Millions of Workers Are Saying 'I Quit'

#245

Post by Apocryphon »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #141
srackey wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And also anecdotally, every professional office worker under ~30 I know has been absolutely miserable during this remote work experience, and is yearning to get back to the office - most for a full 5 days a week.

I’m seeing similar sentiment among my peers. Even some of the people who thought they wanted remote work are realizing it’s not always as fun as it sounds. We read a lot of headlines about how the future is remote work and the HN bubble is full of people claiming they’re never going back from remote work, but I’m not seeing a huge shift toward remote work in actual job listings. I worked remote pre-COVID. It anything…

1. Depends if the large companies who have committed to indefinite remote work will stay true to that policy. Then you'll still have a great deal of remote positions.

2. Those peers and their companies usually have had remote work forced upon them. See what it's like in a less traumatic time when people can work out of cafes and public spaces, maskless.

Re: As the Pandemic Recedes, Millions of Workers Are Saying 'I Quit'

#246

Post by spfzero »

mkr-hn wrote: post #112
dougmwne wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had no special circumstances, I just made a choice to put years of savings to work for myself immediately instead of in the uncertain future. I sold everything and lived simply. Not everyone could do it, but many could who think they can't.

Being able to save, especially for years, is a special circumstance. At least in the US where wages have been flat for quite a while even as cost of living skyrocketed.

It does require discipline and sacrifice, and it's harder or easier depending on circumstance, but it is always possible. You may not be able to save very much, but even a small amount can get you through some situations that would otherwise have cost you more, in interest or lost time at work or whatever. Those small solutions add up over time, so that you're always better off with saving, than without.

Re: As the Pandemic Recedes, Millions of Workers Are Saying 'I Quit'

#247

Post by goatse-4-u »

caseysoftware wrote: post #110
nickthemagicman wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2/3 of America lives paycheck to paycheck. Taking a year off is definitely not the norm

Most people pay $100+/month for cable, eat out multiple times per week, have thousands of credit card debt, and an unexpected $400 bill would ravage them. If you want to live a un-average life, you need to have un-average priorities and sacrifice. Few on HN should be living paycheck to paycheck. Check out Dave Ramsey's Total Money Makeover for a starting model. And yes, you'll have to sacrifice now to benefit later.

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Re: As the Pandemic Recedes, Millions of Workers Are Saying 'I Quit'

#248

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

hda111 wrote: post #220
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #14

It's a new world. We'll have to see what rises from the ashes. I think that a lot of the stressors were there, before COVID, but the pandemic was the straw that broke the camel's back. As an older software engineer, I find the statement that "everyone wants devs" to be fairly amusing. I'm rather grateful that I don't need to work for a living. Instead, I'm working for free. I'm glad to have the tools that are availab…

isn’t it illegal to work for free?

Nope.

Re: As the Pandemic Recedes, Millions of Workers Are Saying 'I Quit'

#249

Post by MisterBastahrd »

wreath wrote: post #44
lordnacho wrote: post #8

The first guy in the article is a dev. There's never been a better time to find work as a dev. Jobs are handing out more money with more flexibility than ever seen before. On top of it all, if your firm wants people back in the office soon, now is the time to do loads of remote interviews so that you can keep being remote. I was interviewing recently and almost everyone is at least partly remote, with a huge number o…

> Jobs are handing out more money with more flexibility than ever seen before. I may be naive, but I guess this office-work-exodus would result to improvements in office spaces in general to attract devs (or other employees in tech). This would also make it easier for people who are looking to move to the US to find office jobs, since the competition is less fierce. Am I off mark here and too naive?

Most people would be happier in offices with a door. Managers have decided that THEIR work is the only work that requires privacy and quiet.

Employees often equate their own job satisfaction by the differences between how their managers treat themselves versus how they treat the people under them. When you have your own office with a door and a white board and have a company card to expense your meals while your devs are working with their headphones on because of the noise level in their cubicles, you're going to have a problem.

Re: As the Pandemic Recedes, Millions of Workers Are Saying 'I Quit'

#250

Post by kansface »

Agenttin wrote: post #221
UncleOxidant wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think our economy is so rich and efficient now, that scenario could actually exist, but everyone is still duped by the workaday culture infinitely persisting the 40 hour work week idea. Not sure we're duped by the 40 hr / week idea so much as we're slaves to our desire for consumer goods. That and housing is very expensive now which means more work to pay for it.

The issue is that pay hasn't kept up with productivity. As things become more efficient employers are having to pay far less for the same amount of work.

It has in tech - in fact I’d wager approximately 100% of productivity gains since the 80s have been in the tech sector which in turn has probably captured nearly all of those gains for itself.
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