Burnout Is Real • Hacker News Board

Re: Burnout Is Real

#161

Post by robby1066 » Fri, Jun 25, 2021, 4:13 PM UTC

I went through a bit of a roller-coaster reading this thread.

First I want to say, good for this guy! He noticed himself getting into a bad place and made a change. A change that he seems psyched about. That's legitimately great.

But as I was reading it, I couldn't help thinking "That's not burnout. WTF is this guy talking about???". Taking a few deep breaths, the rational take is more like "Wow, burnout hits everyone differently. This guy's experience seems WAY different than mine."

When I hit my breaking point, I couldn't do anything. I couldn't THINK about doing anything. I was so burned out that even the thought of starting something new sent me into panic attacks. There was no optimistic story I could tell myself (or anyone else) about the future.

To me, burnout felt like there was a gear in my head that's supposed to turn at 100 rpms and it had gotten sped up to a million rmps, and it was stuck that way. And it was throwing off sparks and teetering and threatening to fly loose at any moment. When I finally left my job, it took a solid 6 months of doing nothing for that gear to START feeling like it was slowing down to normal speed. It was the worst.

Re: Burnout Is Real

#162

Post by ibejoeb » Fri, Jun 25, 2021, 4:14 PM UTC

phone8675309 wrote: post #35

Must be nice to be financially comfortable enough to give that up. I’m glad that they’re addressing the issue, but how many people are stuck with the mortgage and the student debt and the family that needs almost every penny of their income to make ends meet for every person that has the resources to do drop out of the tech industry in less than half a year?

He didn't just say "fuck it I'm rich later" but I don't know why anyone would hold it against him if he had. He started a business and does a job that he manage in a healthy way. This is good.

Re: Burnout Is Real

#163

Post by agumonkey » Fri, Jun 25, 2021, 4:14 PM UTC

visarga wrote: post #149

agumonkey wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you alternate gigs ? I found this to be a great fix (maybe transient though). Manual labour 4h, coding 4h. Aiming at drag free day.

I found it useful to start a private project, find something fancy and interesting to get lost in and spark the creative juices. In other words work less, play more.

I have this obsession that life should be about play. Make productive outputs playful. I think biology made us aim for this. Individually we optimize for lower energy use and in group it's the same we like when things flow, when everybody is in tune. In those cases it's like playing.. and usually it represents peak performance at the system level.

Re: Burnout Is Real

#164

Post by zelos » Fri, Jun 25, 2021, 4:14 PM UTC

alexis_fr wrote: post #139

zelos wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me it was the constant feeling that tasks and responsibilities and difficult decisions are piling up faster than I could process them. Not just "I have too much work to do", but "I have too much work to do and every day it gets worse, and in the morning meeting my team will tell me they all have too much work to do too, and lots of the problems are due to bad tech decisions I took in a hurry a while ago due to in…

> and helped sort things out How? Being overloaded for a long time is also sometimes a sign that the business is failing. Which is horrible: It is when a founder is the most tired that he has to deal with the most unknown part of the work. For a simple project manager, it is often when you miss a deadline that you have to write reports and deal with stakeholder dissatisfaction, which cascades into missing other deadl…

In the short term by moving responsibilities around - in my inexperience I didn't realise that it was okay not to be able to cope with that level of work. In the longer term (eventually) cancelling the project and reorganising.

Re: Burnout Is Real

#165

Post by andkon » Fri, Jun 25, 2021, 4:15 PM UTC

josefresco wrote: post #105

andkon wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you skeptical because it seems too good to be true that he might actually enjoy it? Honestly, i think I understand what he’s saying. I started doing some barback work - basically keeping the bar moving - after being in tech for a decade. It’s way more fun. The bartender I’ve worked with also used to work in tech. And honestly, the money can be good, too. Turns out you don’t need to spend as much just to get yours…

> Are you skeptical because it seems too good to be true that he might actually enjoy it? No, I think it's based on the following: -I suspect he doesn't "need" this job to survive. Well off people who can afford to change careers (by choice) love to tell you how to build a new business/career when there's no real pressure. -I am tired of hearing about "Google Ads" overnight successes (to be fair he didn't claim exact…

lolll I feel you. It's really hard to tell the difference between the Guy Raz kinda story you describe, and stories where someone really did find a better life for themselves where things really are better. They all just sound like hagiography. And often, the story has the role of persuading the person telling it that they made a good call, because... change is scary.

Anyway, I think you're right or at least fair to be skeptical. Chances are, there's more to the story than this. Just like there's probably gonna be a point where being a barback or a bartender is going to be frustrating and dumb for me. But if there's a single lesson I really do believe in, and which this guy's thread echoed to me, it's that you'd be surprised what kinda job you actually enjoy and can survive in. It doesn't just have to be tech work. It might not be in an office at all.

Re: Burnout Is Real

#166

Post by blitz_skull » Fri, Jun 25, 2021, 4:15 PM UTC

nudpiedo wrote: post #156

culopatin wrote: post #120

I don’t know how to frame this well and I apologize in advance. But I think this idea of “oh wow burnout is real I’m so woke” is a privileged person problem. I don’t mean that burnout is a first world problem, but that this “Burnout is real” is. I struggle to put my head in a place where I can be amazed that burnout is real and that I have to warn others of this “thing” as if it’s not part of millions of people’s liv…

It is not a privileged person problem. People in less favorable positions or countries also deal with depression and when not treated properly they may abandon themselves, release the tensions from such life against someone nearby (look at the rates of family abuse in countries that are economically depressed, like ex-Soviet union). Some people even commit suicide like we saw Indian farmers who couldn’t fulfill their…

Perspective itself is a privilege. Typing out this comment on Hacker News is privilege. This whole "comparing levels of privilege" is a silly game with no real purpose.

This previous user's comment was not (in my interpretation) a criticism. They were merely pointing out that "burnout is real" isn't really a useful topic to discuss or debate. Stress is an irreconcilable part of life which everyone experiences. I'd wager that everyone in the world gets burnt out at one point or another.

To summarize: "Burnout is real" is a phrase that is about as useful as saying "Fire is hot". We all get it. We all know. The previous commenter was merely pointing that out.

Re: Burnout Is Real

#167

Post by visarga » Fri, Jun 25, 2021, 4:18 PM UTC

username90 wrote: post #29

analyst74 wrote: post #9

Personally, I find the biggest reason for burnout is lack of autonomy. The author seems to have found the same.

I'd say burnout happens when you have had too many negative experiences related to work compared to how many positive ones you got and your emotions tells you that it isn't something you should continue doing since it is bad for you. A negative experience could be that you worked long hours and no longer could do things you love, or people screaming at you causing stress etc, humans are really good at being creative…

I think you're both right. Both autonomy and the rate of positive/negative results relate to the exploration/exploitation tradeoff. We can't find the necessary means to act towards success or assign low probability to success. That means lots of negative ideation which has an emotional impact.

Re: Burnout Is Real

#168

Post by testfrequency » Fri, Jun 25, 2021, 4:18 PM UTC

mosburger wrote: post #93

ThrowawayP wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having been in a similar situation, my sympathies; I've found it to be a very strange sensation. The burnt-out knows exactly what work tasks they need to do, they know that it's easily within their own capabilities, and they (at a conscious level at least) even desperately want to do the tasks to fulfill their professional obligations (or to simply continue getting paid). But the body just will not do it or forcing i…

OMG you've nailed exactly what I've been feeling for the past six months or so. :/

Not going to advocate that this is the answer for everyone, but what I thought was burnout for me - turned out I had severe anxiety, depression, and ADHD.

I'm on medication now, going through therapy, and still at my current gig doing better than ever.

So, what I want to say is that if you are concerned you are burnt out - it's very possible work is burning you out, but it's also possible to seek treatment before making a big decision like leaving a workplace with tons of great benefits and healthcare to support you.

Re: Burnout Is Real

#169

Post by carlivar » Fri, Jun 25, 2021, 4:18 PM UTC

skeeter2020 wrote: post #49

carlivar wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought that at first too, but he says he likes picking old tickets off the backlog. There's usually no product pressure or deadlines with that sort of work. Which is actually the source of burnout perhaps?

>> he says he likes picking old tickets off the backlog. OT but man I hate people who "select" tickets off the backlog. You better have a good reason for not taking the one right at the top...

You are right, but that's exactly the pressure I'm referring to.

Is "I am totally burnt out to work on that thing where people will be breathing down my neck" a good reason?

Re: Burnout Is Real

#170

Post by agumonkey » Fri, Jun 25, 2021, 4:19 PM UTC

derwiki wrote: post #144

agumonkey wrote: post #89

So odd, I just bought a car paint renovation kit and kept looking at detailing tutorials. There's something magical about these kind of tasks. Focus, physical stimuli, patience, regularity... also none of this is about disrupting a planet scale field, just making something new and pretty. It's not the first time this idea is thrown though, I heard MIT reopened their glasswork labs. PS: one craft that seems even bette…

For me it's something about the inputs and the outputs being more strongly connected. I put in 30 min of sanding, I get X done--I put in 60 min, I get 2X done. Same with cleaning/mowing. Put programming? Often bang my head for 4 hours and then figure it out in 4 minutes the next day.

It's a bit what I had in mind when saying 'regularity' and I think it's important for us to have this simple relationship indeed. At least that's how it felt when I did small scale deliveries. I knew exactly how much money was linked to my job, if I push more I can anticipate the outcome, there was no big system around to mentally manage.