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Burnout Is Real

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Re: Burnout Is Real

#101

Must be nice to be financially comfortable enough to give that up. I’m glad that they’re addressing the issue, but how many people are stuck with the mortgage and the student debt and the family that needs almost every penny of their income to make ends meet for every person that has the resources to do drop out of the tech industry in less than half a year?

Agreeing with some of the comments here: I feel like I'm stuck in my current high paying job; we have a mortgage, nice car, lots of "stuff". Through conversations with therapist and my spouse I've been slowly realizing how much this stuff owns me, rather than me owning stuff. I never have time to play with my synths or flight-sim setup or even photography anymore. The only time I'm truly relaxed is when we go somewhe…

Hey I can kind of empathize!

You didn't ask for advice but that's never stopped me before!

Do a fiscal budget and forecast it out a few years. It is so helpful in seeing where you can cut, where you're spending money that you don't need etc.

Do a time budget. I know, it sounds boring and like life planning but it can help show how you're going to spend your time. If you don't like it and it is overwhelming, look for areas to change. Time management is a zero sum game (outside of paying more for lawn mowing but still, you've just freed up that time).

Sorry for the rambling thoughts, budgeting was something very hard for us to start because it doesn't lie and can be hard to acknowledge all of the little things we were ignoring.

Re: Burnout Is Real

#102
post #94
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s the point of the money if it isn’t doing anything for you?

For one - it makes it possible to take 6 months off if you don’t like doing the work? Without it? Good luck.

Yea I'll probably take some months off. I once took off 6 months and I was surprised how rusty I got after those 6 months.

Re: Burnout Is Real

#103
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel that. My wife and I have a rule: if our expenses go over what we could make working in fast food, we sell some stuff.

Genuinely asking: how do you plan to rent/own property? Where I live working in fast food would only get you a shared bedroom or a small studio, which would be cramped for a couple.

Our mortgage is ~$1000 a month. If you can make the down payment and get approved, owning is almost always cheaper than renting.

edit: $400 of that $1k is property taxes. Live outside of town. It's better. I promise.

Re: Burnout Is Real

#104
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreeing with some of the comments here: I feel like I'm stuck in my current high paying job; we have a mortgage, nice car, lots of "stuff". Through conversations with therapist and my spouse I've been slowly realizing how much this stuff owns me, rather than me owning stuff. I never have time to play with my synths or flight-sim setup or even photography anymore. The only time I'm truly relaxed is when we go somewhe…

I feel that. My wife and I have a rule: if our expenses go over what we could make working in fast food, we sell some stuff.

Would you mind sharing a bit more about that?

I like how this rule sounds, but am wondering whether you live in a high-cost area or not. Having two incomes at the level of the fast-food industry seems somewhat limiting, but this depends on where you live and how frugal you are.

In other comments I'm also noticing that having a mortgage is part of the need to stay in a high-paying job, so maybe renting can alleviate some of that pressure and be more flexible to adjust to live below your means?

Re: Burnout Is Real

#105
post #57

I wish Tim well, I don't know him but mental health is important and undervalued. That being said... Maybe (definitely) I'm cynical but these two tweets turned me off: "I started running google ads and I’ve had some good success in the short two weeks" "I have detailed a car belonging to an Active Denver Bronco, and I’ve detailed a Mercedes, Volvo, and a Porsche." Maybe I'm burned out?

Are you skeptical because it seems too good to be true that he might actually enjoy it? Honestly, i think I understand what he’s saying. I started doing some barback work - basically keeping the bar moving - after being in tech for a decade. It’s way more fun. The bartender I’ve worked with also used to work in tech. And honestly, the money can be good, too. Turns out you don’t need to spend as much just to get yours…

> Are you skeptical because it seems too good to be true that he might actually enjoy it?

No, I think it's based on the following:

-I suspect he doesn't "need" this job to survive. Well off people who can afford to change careers (by choice) love to tell you how to build a new business/career when there's no real pressure.

-I am tired of hearing about "Google Ads" overnight successes (to be fair he didn't claim exactly this) I help small biz with Google Ads frequently and it's ... hard. Maybe I just suck?

-I'm skeptical of his first customers: a professional athlete, Porsche owner etc. I realize these are typically the people who can afford detailing but still there are ~1,696 NFL players in a country of 330 million+ - what are the odds?

- Lastly instead of quitting, and detailing cars quietly he wrote a Tweet thread very similar to other motivational/self-promotion posts that seem very inauthentic and hollow. Shedding light on mental health challenges is good! But I could have done without the "here's how I started a new biz and succeeded in 2 weeks angle.

Look guys, I'm busy and slightly overwhelmed so maybe just ignore my grumpiness. Thanks for listening.

Edit: Related to my personality: How I Built This with Guy Raz on NPR also frequently sends me into a flying rage. Every story goes like this: "So I was in NYC and I was "broke", and then my friend from Stanford called "randomly" and asked me to lunch with the top VC in the country".

Re: Burnout Is Real

#106

Must be nice to be financially comfortable enough to give that up. I’m glad that they’re addressing the issue, but how many people are stuck with the mortgage and the student debt and the family that needs almost every penny of their income to make ends meet for every person that has the resources to do drop out of the tech industry in less than half a year?

Agreeing with some of the comments here: I feel like I'm stuck in my current high paying job; we have a mortgage, nice car, lots of "stuff". Through conversations with therapist and my spouse I've been slowly realizing how much this stuff owns me, rather than me owning stuff. I never have time to play with my synths or flight-sim setup or even photography anymore. The only time I'm truly relaxed is when we go somewhe…

This is definitely true for me. I went from a digital nomad lifestyle living abroad for over a decade, to moving back to North America and "settling down".

In the last three years I've bought a house, fancy car, and accumulated a bunch of "stuff".

By most people's standards, what I have accumulated is not that much, but to me it's a huge weight on my shoulders. Not only the physical items, but subscriptions to services, utilities, property taxes, home maintenance fees, etc. It's all extremely stressful and draining.

I also used to have a ton of hobbies (photography and electronic music as well, interestingly enough). I haven't touched either in over a year, and I don't even have a valid excuse for this paralysis. My job has a hard stop at 5pm. Yet at the end of the day, the only thing I mentally have energy to do is cook with my wife, and then zone out in front of Netflix, read reddit, or occasionally have a few beers.

Even though I make more money now and am in a much more stable job than ever before, for the first time in nearly a decade I find myself depressed and filled with anxiety. I yearn for the simpler lifestyle with less to worry about that I lived before. I'm at - over to be truthful - the age where all my peers have kids, but I'm honestly terrified of the additional responsibility and commitment needed when even just supporting myself with a 'normal' lifestyle is this stressful.

Re: Burnout Is Real

#107
post #58
post #2

I wish I had any other interest apart from programming...

How about Math? Usually they go hand in hand and you barely need a PC to read the book and do excercises.

Most programmers think math is boring. That to me is really weird, but I suppose arithmetic is the most thought of type of math when someone brings up math, and that is extremely boring.

I would encourage any programmer to try out Book Of Proof. At the end you’ll end up understanding what it means, in a mathematical sense, for there to be different “sizes” of infinities. That is interesting.

Re: Burnout Is Real

#108

Personally, I find the biggest reason for burnout is lack of autonomy. The author seems to have found the same.

I think it's working hard for no reward. I've worked hard on things I'm passionate about and never get burnt out. I took a job recently where the product is millions over budget and years behind and all the work goes into a continual hole... and it's the first time I'm starting to experience burnout.

It’s a facet of the underlying problem in my experience - feeling that you have no control or ability to solve the pain/endless problems you are being subjected to, and it will never get better.

Eventually anyone is going to be beaten into submission/get learned helplessness in that type of environment.

Re: Burnout Is Real

#109
Is it real? Sure.

Know what else is real? The burden of normalcy.

This guy cleaned 4 cars in 3 months and decided to turn it into a career. I don't know how much freelance work he's done, but I know the pressure to deliver to a single client to whom you are personally and legally responsible for can be every bit as nerve-wracking as simply performing at your day job.

What happens when you wake up in the modern world where you are lucky enough to be driven by your passions instead of your need to survive and your passion is no longer your passion anymore?

Employees who are feeling stressed out need to sit down with their managers and hash it out with them. A lot of the time, employees are being way too serious about their own jobs, overdo it based on expectations their employer never had, and feel unaccomplished when they aren't recognized for their sacrifices.

A good manager will accommodate a good employee. Don't work for bad managers.

Re: Burnout Is Real

#110

I wish Tim well, I don't know him but mental health is important and undervalued. That being said... Maybe (definitely) I'm cynical but these two tweets turned me off: "I started running google ads and I’ve had some good success in the short two weeks" "I have detailed a car belonging to an Active Denver Bronco, and I’ve detailed a Mercedes, Volvo, and a Porsche." Maybe I'm burned out?

I've run a small side business for a while a few years back. It's a very different feeling / energy than office work (even if tech). I found I could be fairly burned out at work-work and energized on side business. Frequently change is sufficient to revitalize - It's like sometimes in exercise or run or endevour, you just need to switch muscles. So I can fully understand how a tech worker may get excited to setup google ads for themselves and be excited even though technically they're doing extra work.

(we may be misunderstanding what's the cynical part btw - that they are enjoying these activities, or that they're taking place, or something else?)

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