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Burnout Is Real

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Re: Burnout Is Real

#81

Post by ocdtrekkie »

woudsma wrote: post #73
x3ro wrote: post #63

Only tangentially related, but one of the best decision I've taken in the last years was to only work four days a week. Not sure how realistic this is in the US as a dev, but in Germany it's been fairly easy (third job where I'm doing this now) and it's made me 1) more motivated 2) less stressed, and on top (I think) I'm essentially as productive as I'd be working full-time :)

Same here. I currently work four days a week, I'm off every Wednesday. This one day in between to recharge really helps me 'survive' the week. On any given workday I can always look forward to just working one more day until I have some time for myself. Often I simply sleep a lot, or spend some time in the sun whenever possible.

There was a while a number of years ago that I was furloughed on Wednesdays and apart from the 20% pay drop, it was incredible. It felt like I had two day weeks, and I had a day off when normal businesses were open to handle my own affairs.

Re: Burnout Is Real

#82

Post by xyzelement »

It is of course real but so is the responsibility to manage it. At my old job, I was insanely stressed and it was totally self inflicted. My manager challenged me to start later, end earlier, take a meditation/walking break etc. Similarly, I do the same to people who work for me.

Most of what we do is a long term game. If you are a developer or a manager I need you to be healthy and productive for the next decade, not burn out over some short term thing.

There are times we need to push, work the weekend, etc. Most times we don't and it's important to take responsibility for that decision.

I take a very capitalist view of this. It's not about slacking, etc. It's about maximizing your long time contribution and earning.

Re: Burnout Is Real

#83

Post by mitchbob »

dudus wrote: post #8

I never doubted it was real. But I never really understood what it meant until I was deeply depressed and couldn't get up from bed to go to work anymore. Ended up leaving my job at a FANG and taking a year long sabbatical before rejoining the workforce in a lower/less stressful position for a company not on tech. Sometimes it's still depressing to think o took such a hit in my career. Bit when I remember what I felt…

I gave everything and had nothing left.

That's it. Reminds me of the start of Allen Ginsberg's poem America, one of my all-time favorites:

America I've given you all and now I'm nothing.

America two dollars and twentyseven cents January 17, 1956. [1]

[1] https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/49305/america-56d22b4...

Re: Burnout Is Real

#84

Post by aBitPlayer »

I am absolutely burned out with my tech job. The only thing keeping me in it for now is fear: in a minor way, losing the paycheck and benefits for a while; but more significantly, the realization that I know I need to take a year or two away from work to recover from the injury that is burnout. But it needs to happen.

Re: Burnout Is Real

#85

Post by Ozzie_osman »

zwkrt wrote: post #46
phone8675309 wrote: post #35

Must be nice to be financially comfortable enough to give that up. I’m glad that they’re addressing the issue, but how many people are stuck with the mortgage and the student debt and the family that needs almost every penny of their income to make ends meet for every person that has the resources to do drop out of the tech industry in less than half a year?

Those things you mention aren’t really the chains you make them out to be. You can sell your house and move somewhere affordable. Poor people have kids all the time, a lot of times they are even smart! What you feel chained to is your ritzy lifestyle. Your wife and kids won’t resent you for not providing all that fancy shit, but they will resent you for working yourself until there’s nothing left for them.

Though in theory I agree, I think this is simplistic. I know a lot of people who don't live a "ritzy" lifecyle but are still stuck where they are. And yes, in theory, they could move somewhere affordable, but they may not have enough of a cushion, or they may have roots where they live now (for instance, their kids might have friends, or they may have family that are either helping them with their kids or require being helped).

Re: Burnout Is Real

#86

Post by ThrowawayP »

dudus wrote: post #8

I never doubted it was real. But I never really understood what it meant until I was deeply depressed and couldn't get up from bed to go to work anymore. Ended up leaving my job at a FANG and taking a year long sabbatical before rejoining the workforce in a lower/less stressful position for a company not on tech. Sometimes it's still depressing to think o took such a hit in my career. Bit when I remember what I felt…

Having been in a similar situation, my sympathies; I've found it to be a very strange sensation. The burnt-out knows exactly what work tasks they need to do, they know that it's easily within their own capabilities, and they (at a conscious level at least) even desperately want to do the tasks to fulfill their professional obligations (or to simply continue getting paid). But the body just will not do it or forcing it to do so feels as strenuous as Olympic weightlifting such that one is exhausted at the end of the day not from being productive but from attempting to beat oneself into being productive. It's a very unhappy state to be in.

Re: Burnout Is Real

#87

Post by rpmisms »

NikolaNovak wrote: post #66
phone8675309 wrote: post #35

Must be nice to be financially comfortable enough to give that up. I’m glad that they’re addressing the issue, but how many people are stuck with the mortgage and the student debt and the family that needs almost every penny of their income to make ends meet for every person that has the resources to do drop out of the tech industry in less than half a year?

Agreeing with some of the comments here: I feel like I'm stuck in my current high paying job; we have a mortgage, nice car, lots of "stuff". Through conversations with therapist and my spouse I've been slowly realizing how much this stuff owns me, rather than me owning stuff. I never have time to play with my synths or flight-sim setup or even photography anymore. The only time I'm truly relaxed is when we go somewhe…

I feel that. My wife and I have a rule: if our expenses go over what we could make working in fast food, we sell some stuff.

Re: Burnout Is Real

#88

Post by steveBK123 »

corpMaverick wrote: post #47
username90 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say burnout happens when you have had too many negative experiences related to work compared to how many positive ones you got and your emotions tells you that it isn't something you should continue doing since it is bad for you. A negative experience could be that you worked long hours and no longer could do things you love, or people screaming at you causing stress etc, humans are really good at being creative…

Yes and lack of Autonomy causes you to have many negative experiences. Particularly in software engineering you need to constantly make many decisions. But if you don't have autonomy you are constantly having to second guess your self. Not based on what you think is best but based on what you think the other person(s) above you will think. It is way of working that drains your energy.

Yes for me this is the single most demotivating factor.

Re: Burnout Is Real

#89

Post by agumonkey »

So odd, I just bought a car paint renovation kit and kept looking at detailing tutorials.

There's something magical about these kind of tasks. Focus, physical stimuli, patience, regularity... also none of this is about disrupting a planet scale field, just making something new and pretty.

It's not the first time this idea is thrown though, I heard MIT reopened their glasswork labs.

PS: one craft that seems even better there is handtools woodworking. The smell, touch, sound of wood is something special

Re: Burnout Is Real

#90

Post by KittenInABox »

rpmisms wrote: post #87
NikolaNovak wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreeing with some of the comments here: I feel like I'm stuck in my current high paying job; we have a mortgage, nice car, lots of "stuff". Through conversations with therapist and my spouse I've been slowly realizing how much this stuff owns me, rather than me owning stuff. I never have time to play with my synths or flight-sim setup or even photography anymore. The only time I'm truly relaxed is when we go somewhe…

I feel that. My wife and I have a rule: if our expenses go over what we could make working in fast food, we sell some stuff.

Genuinely asking: how do you plan to rent/own property? Where I live working in fast food would only get you a shared bedroom or a small studio, which would be cramped for a couple.
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