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WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted

arstechnica.com

571–580 of 701 posts

Re: WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted

#571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anything, ecological collapse might hasten this future. Just last week, there was this news about the Texas power company that remotely raised temperatures on people's thermostats to save power and avoid brownouts/blackouts. This predictably caused public outrage as people discovered what was in the fine print that they signed without reading, but from the perspective of the power company, everything worked as int…

>remotely raised temperatures on people's thermostats to save power why would raising temperatures save power? probably a silly question but I'm confused.

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Re: WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted

#572

According to Western Digital[1], the CVE involved[2] has been public and unpatched since 2019. That's insane. There's "we don't support end-of-life devices" and then there's "we refuse to fix absolutely critical, crippling security vulnerabilities in devices just a few years old." This is well over the line. I smell (but have no idea of the merits of) a class action lawsuit. [1] https://www.westerndigital.com/support…

EOL should be made to legally mean: opensource or something equivalent. If Windows isn't supported on my laptop, I can nearly always replace it with Linux and still keep it alive. With stuff like this, they can decide to never update it again or just turn off some critical service and render a device unusable. It's not just a thing about owning what you purchase and having the freedom to do what you want with it, it'…

re publiccode.eu

Great link, thanks. Very encouraging.

I've been saying "citizen-owned software".

FWIW, I ran for office on an election integrity platform. Demanding that we own and operate our own elections. While "open source software" worked well enough (10+ years ago), everyone immediately understood "citizen-owned software". Transforms that bullet point into 90/10 (pro/con) issue.

Edit: I should clarify something. FOSS isn't sufficient. Citizen-owned software means we control the repo, builds, distros, etc. Microsoft, RedHat, whomever can fork or whatever, for resale or whatever. But we always control the root.

Re: WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted

#573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>remotely raised temperatures on people's thermostats to save power why would raising temperatures save power? probably a silly question but I'm confused.

It was presumably the upper threshold before air conditioning came on. Explanation for those wondering why this needed explanation: Most thermostats set the lower threshold before heating comes on, so turning it up would use more energy.

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Re: WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted

#574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EOL should be made to legally mean: opensource or something equivalent. If Windows isn't supported on my laptop, I can nearly always replace it with Linux and still keep it alive. With stuff like this, they can decide to never update it again or just turn off some critical service and render a device unusable. It's not just a thing about owning what you purchase and having the freedom to do what you want with it, it'…

The free market soluton: Market experimentation is necessary for innovation. Now we've learned never to buy a product from WD (in case you forgot that last year they intentionally sold unfit SMR hard drives and lied about it). Also, always have backups (not just syncs!).

> Now we...

In this case, "we" is probably a very small group of people. For starters, it's limited to folks who hear about this in the first place. Ars Technica isn't exactly a huge news site, and, while it might be mentioned on TV news, I doubt they'll be talking about it all day long, so only a subset of their viewers would hear about it. Then, beyond that, it's limited to the subset of those who believe that the appropriate response is to not buy WD products anymore. Which isn't everyone on HN, and might not even be half of them.

So maybe we're looking at 1% of the general population? Their opinion isn't going to make a big enough dent in WD's revenues to justify the cost of supporting a product like this past its commercial end of life.

I think that there is a free market answer to this, but it in no way involves successfully pressuring companies like Western Digital to support discontinued products in perpetuity. It's just good old-fashioned "caveat emptor", pure and simple.

Granted, we're talking about consumer tech, so the vast majority of emptors don't have the background knowledge to be able to successfully caveat for themselves. So that approach is sort of acknowledging that a bunch of people will be screwed.

Which might be the best you can get. This is an area with no perfect solutions. More consumer product regulation might curtail events like this, but at the cost of more regulatory costs, possibly stifling innovation, and the risk that the legislative body (few of whom really understand these issues themselves) will just deliver us the latest heinously misdesigned law in a long series of heinously misdesigned law. Leaving things as they are might avoid all of that, but would guarantee that things like this keep happening more-or-less unchecked. Which kind of solution someone prefers is perhaps more a matter of political leaning than any practical consideration.

Re: WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted

#575
post #565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The free market soluton: Market experimentation is necessary for innovation. Now we've learned never to buy a product from WD (in case you forgot that last year they intentionally sold unfit SMR hard drives and lied about it). Also, always have backups (not just syncs!).

We learned that. But does my grandpa even know what WD is when he goes to the shop buy a disk and is sold this thing?

Exactly, so many "free market" arguments boil down to blaming the victim of corporate malfeasance.

Re: WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted

#576
post #239

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Hard drives are consumable devices. Dropbox sounds like a better deal considering you get redundancy, don’t need to replace drives when they fail, can recover deleted files for some amount of time (I think)..

This is much much less of a problem for consumer workloads. A pair of hard drives can last a household a decade of moderate use without needing replaced.

Sure in the best case. They could also fail 2 years in so you need redundancy to not lose data.

Re: WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted

#577
post #522

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7 years is a relatively long time for a product, but not necessarily for a car. The average car age at scrap time is 13.9 years (UK stats). [Wildly off topic ranting about the balance of embodied versus emitted CO2 for the typical ICE vehicle omitted. Clue: 10 years is about the break-even point.]

> Wildly off topic ranting about the balance of embodied versus emitted CO2 for the typical ICE vehicle omitted. Clue: 10 years is about the break-even point Do you mean it takes about 10 years for the car to emit the same amount of co2 that was used in producing it?

If so, that's not "breakeven". Breakeven is when future emissions savings from a newer better car make it worth scrapping (not just selling) a car and replacing it with a newly manufactured one.

Re: WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted

#579
post #428
post #408

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But consumer electronics are written off on much shorter timeframes than cars. Are we going to require support for electronics for 7 years? I would be in favor of it, but I don't see it happen. Device was EoL in 2015, the vuln is from 2019, breach 2021. Even if we take the vuln date, that's 4 years after EoL. The question then becomes: is it reasonable to say that electronics are expected to have a life half of that…

I'd argue that this is serious enough that EOL doesn't apply. Yeah sure EOL for updates, features, minor issues etc. But this is literally "Anyone in the world can remotely make your product unusable and destroy everything on it while you use it as intended" I don't care if a car manifacturer EOL'ed a car model, if an issue gets discovered that will make the engine explode at random they better do recall.

But it's EOL. EOL means end of life, not just "no longer sold". EOL means we agreed it's trash and you are using it at your own risk.

It's not the manufacturer's fault if your expired fire extinguisher or medicine fails.

Internet things are out durable goods. They require maintenance or they fail.

If EOL is unreasonably short, that's a factor in purchase decision or contract or commercial code violation if they surprised you with accelerated EOL.

Re: WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted

#580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Non-technical users don't care about this distinction. The name Western Digital is on both, and that name's brand value is destroyed forever if this indeed turns out to be irreversible. Though they could probably pivot to selling their drives in other's NAS devices without much difficulty if they want to remain in this market.

Non-technical users don't really buy hard drives individually, they would at most ask their computer-savvy friend or go to a shop who will replace it for them. I highly doubt the average non-technical user even knows who produced the hard drive they own.

Internal drives, you're right, likely wouldn't be bought by a non-techie alone.

But THIS affected type of drive is specifically marketed to a very non-technical user, and I can certainly confirm my non-technical friends and family have bought products in this segment independently, whereas my techie friends steer clear.

It's a NAS that's made to look like a drive. My techie friends would never buy it - they'd get Synology/QNAP, or do their own over-complicated time-consuming solution (slight editorial opinion there ;), or use cloud backup, or some combo. But my dad, mother in law, and other relatives have products like this, and have purchased them on their own. In fact, I think when asked, most techies would in fact go against the notion of buying cheap but internet-exposed storage device for a non-technical friend :O

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