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As the Pandemic Recedes, Millions of Workers Are Saying 'I Quit'

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Re: As the Pandemic Recedes, Millions of Workers Are Saying 'I Quit'

#81

Post by refurb »

mjburgess wrote: post #42
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and no. It depends on what is being manufactured. We manufacture big, expensive things. I have friends that run Garment District companies, and they are pretty much a Bellwether for this kind of thing. > In the next decade, china itself will see large segments of its manufacturing labour gone to automation. I agree. It will be slower than Japan and Korea, because China has a much larger population of poor folks t…

I suspect, based on a type of ecological-thermodynamic reasoning, that china will never be middle class. I think the "global class structure" we have today might be the peak of history. The relevant calculation: Annual US Energy Consumption per Capia: 7,000 kg oil equivalent. China: 2,000 kg. So you're looking at +5,000kg per capita * 1.4bn people annual . So you'll need to add that energy capacity to the world, ie.,…

I’m wondering about that too but for another reason - the aging population. There are article in Asian about “China getting old before it gets rich”.

Basically the small group of younger workers are going to have their wealth siphoned off to support the much larger older population who doesn’t have financial means to support themselves. Not a big deal when it’s 5 workers to one retired. Huge deal when it’s 2 to 1.

The expectation is that will stall growth for decades. China will be richer, but stuck in a lower income range until they come out the other side.

It’s an interesting theory.

Re: As the Pandemic Recedes, Millions of Workers Are Saying 'I Quit'

#82

Post by mc32 »

Millions of people are quitting their current jobs to take better jobs!

(But that is a very different narrative). Damn you NPR.

From their text:

>” So when his employer began calling people back to the office part time, he balked at the 45-minute commute. He started looking for a job with better remote work options and quickly landed multiple offers.”

Re: As the Pandemic Recedes, Millions of Workers Are Saying 'I Quit'

#83

Post by streamofdigits »

mjburgess wrote: post #23
streamofdigits wrote: post #17

There is no doubt that the pandemic has been a huge mental shock (and hopefully it will trigger overall more sustainable and meaningful behaviors). But sketching how the post-pandemic work landscape would look like seems extremely premature. People currently underappreciate the impact of government support at all levels. The sense of calm and control (or the absence of panic if you wish) is the result of an unprecede…

> which among others has demolished the brain-damaged neoliberal narrative oh?

had governments not bailed out unconditionally a big chunk of the economy many business sectors would have collapsed. This would have triggered a run on the financial system like no one in recorded history.

maybe we should have left "creative destruction" to play out. after all a pandemic is a known business risk.

Re: As the Pandemic Recedes, Millions of Workers Are Saying 'I Quit'

#84

Post by PragmaticPulp »

hypertele-Xii wrote: post #77
bamboozled wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice you have the option

Imagine living in a society where basic income is guaranteed no matter what, and even its worst places - its prison cells - compare favorably to the finest hotels of other countries. You have so many options you feel constantly overwhelmed, stressing about making bad choices because everything your primitive heart could ever desire is not merely available, but plentiful and cheap. And it'll recruit you if you're not…

> Imagine living in a society where basic income is guaranteed no matter what

Realistic UBI proposals wouldn’t exactly provide a comfortable wage. They’d provide just enough to get by on the basics, if that. That doesn’t mean it wouldn’t be helpful, but it does mean that it won’t be an attractive alternative to work for anyone who isn’t comfortable staying poor forever.

UBI would still be a safety net, not an attractive alternative to working. The idea that UBI would enable people to become free of work and follow their dreams for free has been greatly exaggerated. It’s just not possible to tax enough to pay everyone high UBI wages. Safety net wages, maybe, but it won’t be a fun living situation to depend entirely on UBI.

Re: As the Pandemic Recedes, Millions of Workers Are Saying 'I Quit'

#85

Post by YrAz3EGttt »

loloquwowndueo wrote: post #79
bamboozled wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice you have the option

Don’t you? Why not? Because of financials? Job availability in your region? There’s always an option. It might entail a more extensive change and change is hard, that’s for sure.

It indeed is a luxury to be able to take a year off at will. Big reason I can think of is financials.

In my opinion, burnout is a problem only faced by people who can afford to do so. I am not saying everyone doesn't face burnout, they probably do, but not everyone can afford to take a sabbatical, dip into savings, indulge in a hobby etc. There are many people who don't earn as much as a silicon valley engineer, have low savings to dip into, and perhaps even have/inherit debt - Making rent and being able to afford essentials takes priority to dealing with burnout in such situations.

Re: As the Pandemic Recedes, Millions of Workers Are Saying 'I Quit'

#86

Post by PragmaticPulp »

loloquwowndueo wrote: post #79
bamboozled wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice you have the option

Don’t you? Why not? Because of financials? Job availability in your region? There’s always an option. It might entail a more extensive change and change is hard, that’s for sure.

If you’re young, have no children, and don’t mind picking up and moving and giving up local connections, sure.

That’s not common, though.

Really though, the solution is to change jobs. Despite how it looks from HN comments, there are plenty of companies out there with good work life balance.

Painting this as a false dichotomy between staying in burnout-inducing jobs or dropping everything to become jobless isn’t helpful. There’s an entire spectrum of options that should be explored to change a burnout-inducing situation.

Re: As the Pandemic Recedes, Millions of Workers Are Saying 'I Quit'

#87

Post by samsquire »

All the power to them!

I think society has to invent new kinds of work* or introduce UBI. There's too many people toiling away in low wage jobs which will never escape and will have to work until 68.

You would have thought that a job that nobody wants to do would pay more than one that is cushy.

* Getting rid of manufacturing has gotten rid of a huge amount of jobs that provided stability to our economies. Now all our economies are service economies. We can't all be shopkeepers. What are people meant to do with their lives?

Life is more important than work. I'd like to see labour have more leverage over capital.

Re: As the Pandemic Recedes, Millions of Workers Are Saying 'I Quit'

#88

Post by rossdavidh »

I have often worked remotely for years, but...I'm a contractor/consultant, and a programmer. I am unemployed several months out of the year, typically, and I am always intentionally short-to-medium term where I work.

I fear that many of the people demanding remote work now, will be surprised when (not if) the first layoffs come, and they find out that the person who's in the office every day is more awkward to fire than the remote person. Me, I'm always temporary, so I know this and am ok with it. I fear many of the people looking for remote work now think it will be just like office work, except they get to work at home. It's not. It's a much more tenuous relationship with your employer, and you have to always assume (e.g. in your budget) that you can/will lose your paycheck with little or no notice. If you're ok with that kind of perpetual instability, great, but I'm not sure most of the people looking for remote work now are aware of this tradeoff.

Re: As the Pandemic Recedes, Millions of Workers Are Saying 'I Quit'

#89

Post by notacoward »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #66
xwdv wrote: post #5

I am glad the pandemic has been a wake up call for so many people about the value of their time and how different things could be if they cut out pointless meetings and long commutes that they don’t even get paid for.

For many of us it's actually been a wake up call about how important it is to be physically present with coworkers and a realization of how much the office actually does offer in terms of productivity and morale boost. I know this is a very unpopular opinion here on HN threads about this situation. And all power to the people who love remote work. But out of all the engineers I know personally and of all the people o…

> most of the other Googlers

How much of that is because of productivity, how much is for social (i.e. non-task-oriented) interaction, and how much is getting away from the place where you also have to do your own cooking and cleaning and possibly deal with kids? I'm guessing productivity is the least of these reasons, for most FAANGers. After all, they self-selected to be in such environments.

Re: As the Pandemic Recedes, Millions of Workers Are Saying 'I Quit'

#90

Post by DoingIsLearning »

lordnacho wrote: post #46
beforeolives wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Jobs are handing out more money with more flexibility than ever seen before. I'm in the UK and not seeing any of this.

I'm in the UK too. But also remote means you can get a job "based" anywhere. Check out some US firms for instance, many are hiring and are happy with euro time zones.

Is that your experience with US companies hiring at the moment?

I never considered this type of roles before because it was sort of a given in my head that they would want US based candidates for taxation reasons.

Have you seen a big change regarding this, from US based companies?

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