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You’re Lucky Workers Are Only Asking for $15 an Hour

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Re: You’re Lucky Workers Are Only Asking for $15 an Hour

#71

Post by neilwilson »

randyrand wrote: post #55
neilwilson wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Overall productivity increases don't increase profits. They reduce prices! Workers make more because everything costs less." That only applies in an economy without credit and where sales are constrained by the spending of the wage share. In an economy with credit you can use financialisation to give people spending power their wages don't permit, which keeps prices higher than they would otherwise be and allows mor…

Short term sure, but the overall big picture is the same.

There is no equilibrating condition in the dynamics that brings that about and certainly nothing that is politically viable.

There's an inductive connection between the monetary economy and the real economy, not a direct one. It works more like an iPhone charger than a 1 bar electric fire, and that means you need greater monetary 'apparent power' to get the maximum level of real economy 'true power'.

Re: You’re Lucky Workers Are Only Asking for $15 an Hour

#72

Post by josephferano »

ActorNightly wrote: post #17

Federal minimum wage debate is silly. Places have varying cost of living. Just give people income tax relief/credits based on their living situation (including credits that are paid out as cash) and let companies fight for workers with whatever wage they want.

This. I get a little exhasperated wheneve I hear people push for a FEDERAL minimum wage. I'm not against wages being negotiated for the benefit of workers, but like you mentioned; wage hikes will not have the same effect in San Francisco as they would, for instance, where I'm from; San Juan, Puerto Rico. The deleterious effects of price floors on labor are on a continuum and they would disproportionately affect our economy.

As others have pointed out, why can't the States handle it? I feel like Americans are too quick to forget that the United States of America are a federation of States and too often conceptually envisions the country as a single political unit. Comparisons to Europe are frequently drawn even though the scales are different and even then, many European countries have more decentralized minimum wage laws, such as collective bargaining agreements within specific industries, rather than nationally mandated ones.

Re: You’re Lucky Workers Are Only Asking for $15 an Hour

#73

Post by dragonwriter »

josephferano wrote: post #72
ActorNightly wrote: post #17

Federal minimum wage debate is silly. Places have varying cost of living. Just give people income tax relief/credits based on their living situation (including credits that are paid out as cash) and let companies fight for workers with whatever wage they want.

This. I get a little exhasperated wheneve I hear people push for a FEDERAL minimum wage. I'm not against wages being negotiated for the benefit of workers, but like you mentioned; wage hikes will not have the same effect in San Francisco as they would, for instance, where I'm from; San Juan, Puerto Rico. The deleterious effects of price floors on labor are on a continuum and they would disproportionately affect our e…

> I get a little exhasperated wheneve I hear people push for a FEDERAL minimum wage.

I would get exasperated by that, too, if it actually occurred; I mean, we’ve had a federal minimum wage since 1938, why would people be arguing for something we’ve had for close to a century?

But, since that is the case, I wonder if you’d like to clarify what it is you are ranting against, since it can't possibily really be the nonexistent and, if it did exist, utterly redundant movement to adopt a federal minimum wage.

Re: You’re Lucky Workers Are Only Asking for $15 an Hour

#74

Post by [deleted] »

xupybd wrote: post #65
FactoryReboot wrote: post #28

Walmart employees make so little they are often eligible for food stamps. Walmart knows and teaches employees how to apply. What kind of free market is that? You shouldn’t be allowed to pay your employees so little that they are eligible for government benefits. To me this issue seems like something that both political parties would take issue with.

Why not boycott Walmart? If low pay is an ethical concern shouldn't people take aim with their own purchasing power?

[deleted]

Re: You’re Lucky Workers Are Only Asking for $15 an Hour

#75

Post by djbebs »

slater wrote: post #48
krickkrack wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the reality is also that if $24/hr was the minimum wage the price of items would be through the roof and that $24/hr would be worth less than what the $15/hr is worth now. No such thing as a free lunch. You can't just inflate a persons worth without having to pay for it somehow.

the (allegedly taking-all-the-risks) folks at the very tippy-top could also earn a little bit less. y'know, even out the playing field a millimeter or two.

Why should they?

Re: You’re Lucky Workers Are Only Asking for $15 an Hour

#76

Post by djbebs »

throwawaysea wrote: post #58
dehrmann wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Walmart's profit margin is 2.20% (that's a very low number). That's an extra $4,400 per employ at most .

How can we know that? The profit margin that is publicly known is after spending that might be optional. For instance, Walmart could forego some investment like building a new store, or expand more slowly, and be able to pay higher wages that go beyond the buffer of their current profit margin as a result.

Walmarts finances are public, you need only read their latest 10-K and youll have a pretty good idea of how much money they make.

Re: You’re Lucky Workers Are Only Asking for $15 an Hour

#77

Post by djbebs »

guerrilla wrote: post #70
macspoofing wrote: post #19

The only argument in favour of minimum wage is that if set at a low enough level it does not seem to have a detrimental effect on core prosperity metrics like employment rate. Proponents never attempt to claim any positive effect or show evidence of it. It doesn't reduce unemployment. It doesn't reduce poverty. In many situations it hurts young people who are trying to break into an industry, low income workers and s…

The only argument except all the ethical ones. > Proponents never attempt to claim any positive effect or show evidence of it Like workers being able to afford food?

You cant afford food when you dont have a job.

Re: You’re Lucky Workers Are Only Asking for $15 an Hour

#78

Post by truckerbill »

djbebs wrote: post #75
slater wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the (allegedly taking-all-the-risks) folks at the very tippy-top could also earn a little bit less. y'know, even out the playing field a millimeter or two.

Why should they?

Because wealth generation is a positive feedback loop which creates a winner-take-all situation. And a persons starting conditions are based on luck. And roughly speaking, the relationship between money and well-being is non-linear, shaped like a log curve. So three kinds of unfair.

Re: You’re Lucky Workers Are Only Asking for $15 an Hour

#79

Post by [deleted] »

dehrmann wrote: post #63
throwawaysea wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can we know that? The profit margin that is publicly known is after spending that might be optional. For instance, Walmart could forego some investment like building a new store, or expand more slowly, and be able to pay higher wages that go beyond the buffer of their current profit margin as a result.

> The profit margin that is publicly known is after spending that might be optional. For instance, Walmart could forego some investment like building a new store, or expand more slowly... You can see cap ex on their cash flow statement and create all sorts of hypothetical profit margins for them. Walmart can't actually take a hit like that because their monopoly power isn't strong enough. Their game is low prices. If…

[deleted]

Re: You’re Lucky Workers Are Only Asking for $15 an Hour

#80

Post by josephferano »

dragonwriter wrote: post #73
josephferano wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. I get a little exhasperated wheneve I hear people push for a FEDERAL minimum wage. I'm not against wages being negotiated for the benefit of workers, but like you mentioned; wage hikes will not have the same effect in San Francisco as they would, for instance, where I'm from; San Juan, Puerto Rico. The deleterious effects of price floors on labor are on a continuum and they would disproportionately affect our e…

> I get a little exhasperated wheneve I hear people push for a FEDERAL minimum wage. I would get exasperated by that, too, if it actually occurred; I mean, we’ve had a federal minimum wage since 1938 , why would people be arguing for something we’ve had for close to a century? But, since that is the case, I wonder if you’d like to clarify what it is you are ranting against, since it can't possibily really be the none…

"I get a little exhasperated whenever I hear people push for an increase to the federal minimum wage"

Fixed.

We should not be raising the federal MW and should instead prefer more localized measures, such as States, counties, cities, or individual industries developing their own policies.

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