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WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted

arstechnica.com

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Re: WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted

#451

Post by vanderZwan »

terramex wrote: post #380
ksec wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iOS is only something like 5 years support ( Which is great ). My Book Live goes as far back as 2011. I am pretty sure no security update are being provided to iPhone 4s.

> I am pretty sure no security update are being provided to iPhone 4s. You are right, but iPhone 5s (released in 2013) got a security update 9 days ago.

If only I could somehow factory reset mine - it's carrier locked to Lithuania, and since I don't live there any more it seems stuck.

Would be nice to be able to repurpose it for something

Re: WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted

#452

Post by stef25 »

fallingknife_ wrote: post #125

Read this, then checked my old My Book Live. Sure enough... everything's gone. I just used it for continuous laptop backups over my LAN, so unless one of them crashes tonight, I should be good. But, this will certainly give me pause when considering WD products, and this type of product in particular. This is very bad, WD! Are your other products also vulnerable in this way? Why should anyone ever again trust your co…

Connecting a hard drive directly to the internet is probably never a good idea.

Re: WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted

#453

Post by roel_v »

smoe wrote: post #441
roel_v wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But consumer electronics are written off on much shorter timeframes than cars. Are we going to require support for electronics for 7 years? I would be in favor of it, but I don't see it happen. Device was EoL in 2015, the vuln is from 2019, breach 2021. Even if we take the vuln date, that's 4 years after EoL. The question then becomes: is it reasonable to say that electronics are expected to have a life half of that…

In my opinion the difference should be whether something is the first generation of a product or an iteration. Basically somehow using the Lindy effect to determine how long it should be supported. E.g. if I had bought the very first generation of the iPhone it would have been much more out of couriosity, not long time usage expectation. But I think there now has been enough development on it, that I should be able t…

OK, well now come up with a formula that says (from a series of objective and not-readily-gameable characteristics) for a random electrical/electronic device (or, if you want to separate the two, provide a way to do so - is a 1980's microwave with an 8-bit controller for the timer 'electronics' or 'electrical'?) how long the warranty should be, how long it should be 'supported' (for a definition of 'supported') and how long critical errors should be fixed. Also specify which issues, and at which time point, should be paid for or not.

There is a lot of 'everything should be supported for eternity for free' in this thread, but I see no (at least somewhat) concrete suggestions for better solutions. If it was easy, we would have done it people.

Re: WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted

#454

Post by Fnoord »

iSnow wrote: post #446
oblio wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When a car manufacturer sells a car, in many parts of the world they're supposed to still offer parts for it for 7 years after they stop selling it, by law.

That's not exactly great, tbh. A car can easily run for 10y (mine is due for a replacement at 19yo), so 7y seems ecologically unnecessarily wasteful. I get that it doesn't make sense to offer parts for 20yo cars, but if we want to live in a sustainable future, people need to stop replacing cars after 5y or so.

Not 7 years after you bought it. It is 7 years after they stop selling it. If you bought the last one, sure. But if you bought it say 2 years after release you may end up in the tens of years of usage. Also don't forget cars need maintenance. You can compare with buying iPhone on release day versus the day before it is discontinued.

Re: WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted

#455

Post by rswail »

majewsky wrote: post #438
pope_meat wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I hope ecological collapse nips this black mirror future were tumbling in to. Things feel bleak.

If anything, ecological collapse might hasten this future. Just last week, there was this news about the Texas power company that remotely raised temperatures on people's thermostats to save power and avoid brownouts/blackouts. This predictably caused public outrage as people discovered what was in the fine print that they signed without reading, but from the perspective of the power company, everything worked as int…

Managing an integrated grid using household solar and battery as part of the supply management is one thing.

Adjusting people's usage for demand management is another.

They need to be separated and managed differently.

Instead of push adjusting HVAC for demand, they could use proper price signals with the appropriate local automation at the household that can be over-ridden by the consumer.

Re: WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted

#456

Post by usr1106 »

roel_v wrote: post #408
oblio wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When a car manufacturer sells a car, in many parts of the world they're supposed to still offer parts for it for 7 years after they stop selling it, by law.

But consumer electronics are written off on much shorter timeframes than cars. Are we going to require support for electronics for 7 years? I would be in favor of it, but I don't see it happen. Device was EoL in 2015, the vuln is from 2019, breach 2021. Even if we take the vuln date, that's 4 years after EoL. The question then becomes: is it reasonable to say that electronics are expected to have a life half of that…

> But consumer electronics are written off on much shorter timeframes than cars.

They are, but it kills the planet.

We have 12 year old PCs in the family. Well, back then they were high-end models bought for work. Now they are running Linux just fine for general family purpose. They use a bit more of energy than a new model, but where we live you have to heat buildings at least 8 months a year anyway. I am sure producing a new one would have required much more resources.

Re: WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted

#457

Post by yread »

bigiain wrote: post #189
haswell wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In defense of the parent comment, there is a meaningful difference between a device acting as the terminating IP meaning any open services are directly probe-able and a device sitting behind a firewall. For this particular attack (assuming c2 server compromise?) that might not matter, but ultimately there is a massive difference in attack surface when comparing “direct” with “NATed”

How good do you reckon a 6 years past EOL consumer linux device's defences against a browser running 3rd (or 1st) party javascript making http requests to http://192.168.0.1..254]/cgi-bin/factoryRestore.sh ? How much would you bet against that being an unauthenticated call or one with leaked hard coded reds?

I remember Opera showing an error when I tried to follow a link from Internet to a private addresses (192.168.0.0/16 and such). Don't browsers enforce that anymore?

Re: WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted

#458

Post by Fnoord »

freeone3000 wrote: post #282
ChuckMcM wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. This is the ultimate IoT failure scenario, the product is in use but no longer supported and an exploit can hit it from the Internet. I suspect there will be litigation, but I am not a lawyer. I will be interested to see it though, what is the responsibility for using things post end-of-life? What we might see is a new “your on your own” mode built into this sort of appliance that once EOL hits it asks you to af…

I think the issue here is "end of life" is defined way too soon for portable hard drives. The mechanical parts have a 4% annual failure rate, or a half-life of 12.5 years. The software should be supported for that long.

You can probably open up the portable hard drive and remove the physical hard drive, ending up with a 3.5". Some contain high quality server hard drives (some don't) for cheap price. You do lose your warranty though.

Re: WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted

#459

Post by diarrhea »

stef25 wrote: post #452
fallingknife_ wrote: post #125

Read this, then checked my old My Book Live. Sure enough... everything's gone. I just used it for continuous laptop backups over my LAN, so unless one of them crashes tonight, I should be good. But, this will certainly give me pause when considering WD products, and this type of product in particular. This is very bad, WD! Are your other products also vulnerable in this way? Why should anyone ever again trust your co…

Connecting a hard drive directly to the internet is probably never a good idea.

The thought of enabling internet/outside access to my Synology DS218+ always made my skin scrawl. It will never happen.

Re: WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted

#460

Post by sokoloff »

sellyme wrote: post #347
MattGaiser wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But lifetime is evidently not as long as the device lasts, as we see with Microsoft. Plenty of XP machines are still alive out there and they have long been out of support. So while Apple does provide a lot of support for older devices seemingly, how much are they legally/contractually required to provide currently?

> But lifetime is evidently not as long as the device lasts, as we see with Microsoft. Plenty of XP machines are still alive out there and they have long been out of support. This will vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but where I live, "lifetime" is defined as the period of time in which a product is reasonably expected to last. Talking about "XP machines" is a bit weird, because you're really talking about tw…

> If you buy a washing machine [here] and it breaks after 2 years, you're entitled to either a full refund, or a replacement.

This really stood out to me. If I bought a washer here in the US and it broke after two years, I expect I’d be on my own.

I’d be frustrated, of course, but I’d either fix or replace it and go on, probably not buying from that brand again. (Although, buying another brand could still get me the same internal parts and defects nowadays.)

I find it fascinating that I’m not at all upset by this situation. I’m guessing that I conclude it happens rarely enough that I’d rather bear the risk over pushing that risk back into a bundled insurance product with every purchase. I don’t feel like an insurance fight and waiting for a service call while I have a pile of wet laundry and another of dirty. (But maybe I’m suffering Stockholm Syndrome here.)

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