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You’re Lucky Workers Are Only Asking for $15 an Hour

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Re: You’re Lucky Workers Are Only Asking for $15 an Hour

#21

Post by JJMcJ »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #18

"It's not how much you make. It's how much you keep." One of the things that tends to not enter these discussions is that the US has torn down about a million SROs[1] and largely zoned out of existence the ability to build other small scale homes currently being called Missing Middle Housing. When walkable neighborhoods were more the norm and you could get just a room or small place as market rate housing without hav…

Also something you see in older cities, retail first floor, small apartments upper floors. Tended to be cheaper than all-residential buildings.

There have been experiments with some buildings without any parking being put up but it's rare. And that adds a lot of expense.

Re: You’re Lucky Workers Are Only Asking for $15 an Hour

#22

Post by labcomputer »

janandonly wrote: post #8

The reality is that if the minimum wage had stayed consistent with productivity and inflation since 1968, America’s lowest earners would be making around $24 an hour by now, an analysis by Jacobin found last year. Fifteen dollars is not asking for a lot. In fact, it’s asking for less than the bare minimum of what we should be providing our workers.

The reality is that 1968 had the highest inflation-adjusted minimum wage ever in the united states. I'm not sure it makes sense to compare to an outlier.

Re: You’re Lucky Workers Are Only Asking for $15 an Hour

#23

Post by DoreenMichele »

JJMcJ wrote: post #21
DoreenMichele wrote: post #18

"It's not how much you make. It's how much you keep." One of the things that tends to not enter these discussions is that the US has torn down about a million SROs[1] and largely zoned out of existence the ability to build other small scale homes currently being called Missing Middle Housing. When walkable neighborhoods were more the norm and you could get just a room or small place as market rate housing without hav…

Also something you see in older cities, retail first floor, small apartments upper floors. Tended to be cheaper than all-residential buildings. There have been experiments with some buildings without any parking being put up but it's rare. And that adds a lot of expense.

Thank you.

Parking minimums are also proven to kill old style walkable downtowns with commercial on the first floor and residential above. You can't develop those old buildings and also meet parking minimums and preserve the dense development.

In practice, you end up tearing down some of the buildings to meet those minimums and there is abundant parking that's half empty most of the time and it becomes a lot less walkable and more spread out, increasing the need for a car. It's maddening.

Re: You’re Lucky Workers Are Only Asking for $15 an Hour

#24

Post by u801e »

labcomputer wrote: post #22
janandonly wrote: post #8

The reality is that if the minimum wage had stayed consistent with productivity and inflation since 1968, America’s lowest earners would be making around $24 an hour by now, an analysis by Jacobin found last year. Fifteen dollars is not asking for a lot. In fact, it’s asking for less than the bare minimum of what we should be providing our workers.

The reality is that 1968 had the highest inflation-adjusted minimum wage ever in the united states. I'm not sure it makes sense to compare to an outlier.

According to this chart [1] showing the inflation adjusted minimum wage over the years, it should be closer to $11 to match the dollar value it typically had most of the years it was in place.

[1] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/30/Ti...

Re: You’re Lucky Workers Are Only Asking for $15 an Hour

#25

Post by throwaway0a5e »

ActorNightly wrote: post #17

Federal minimum wage debate is silly. Places have varying cost of living. Just give people income tax relief/credits based on their living situation (including credits that are paid out as cash) and let companies fight for workers with whatever wage they want.

Or just read and follow the 10th amendment.

States have varying conditions. Let them implement their own min-wages as they see fit.

Re: You’re Lucky Workers Are Only Asking for $15 an Hour

#26

Post by saltysallys »

u801e wrote: post #24
labcomputer wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reality is that 1968 had the highest inflation-adjusted minimum wage ever in the united states. I'm not sure it makes sense to compare to an outlier.

According to this chart [1] showing the inflation adjusted minimum wage over the years, it should be closer to $11 to match the dollar value it typically had most of the years it was in place. [1] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/30/Ti...

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=EZn4

Re: You’re Lucky Workers Are Only Asking for $15 an Hour

#27

Post by javagram »

janandonly wrote: post #6
janandonly wrote: post #4

Minimum wage should simply keep up with cost of living divided by the reasonable working hours. Like: cost of living is $1800 a month divided by 3 full days a week times 4 (12), times 8 hours = 1800 / (3 4 8) = 1800 / 96 = $18,75 per hour.

This is how bad things have gotten: In the 1950s, the minimum wage was supposed to be enough for a person to support their family; today the minimum wage is enough for a college student to make it until their next paycheck, not much more. Unfortunately, a lot of people in this country think this is how it should be.

The minimum wage in 1950 was $0.75 which is equivalent to $8.21 in 2021 dollars.

https://libraryguides.missouri.edu/pricesandwages/1950-1959 Seems to indicate a lot of commodities match up with this. For instance “ Milk cost an average of 41¢ per ½ gallon in 1950. Source: U.S. BLS”

So for an hour’s minimum wage in 1950 you could buy half a gallon of milk. Now in 2021 an hour of minimum wage would buy about 2 gallons of milk or more.

The main item that seems out of balance is housing cost. “ In 1950, the median home value was $7,354. Source: US Census Bureau” that’s $84,000 in 2021 dollars while the modern median house price in 2021 is actually $269,000.

A big part of this is likely due to banning smaller housing, tenement housing, manufactured housing, and other cheap housing options.

Re: You’re Lucky Workers Are Only Asking for $15 an Hour

#28

Post by FactoryReboot »

Walmart employees make so little they are often eligible for food stamps.

Walmart knows and teaches employees how to apply.

What kind of free market is that? You shouldn’t be allowed to pay your employees so little that they are eligible for government benefits.

To me this issue seems like something that both political parties would take issue with.

Re: You’re Lucky Workers Are Only Asking for $15 an Hour

#29

Post by nfw2 »

macspoofing wrote: post #19

The only argument in favour of minimum wage is that if set at a low enough level it does not seem to have a detrimental effect on core prosperity metrics like employment rate. Proponents never attempt to claim any positive effect or show evidence of it. It doesn't reduce unemployment. It doesn't reduce poverty. In many situations it hurts young people who are trying to break into an industry, low income workers and s…

The positive effect is that some workers will earn higher wages. One obviously wouldn't expect it to affect unemployment in a positive way. It also wouldn't affect poverty in a positive way if the affected workers weren't below the poverty line to begin with.

Re: You’re Lucky Workers Are Only Asking for $15 an Hour

#30

Post by Analemma_ »

simfree wrote: post #20
DoreenMichele wrote: post #18

"It's not how much you make. It's how much you keep." One of the things that tends to not enter these discussions is that the US has torn down about a million SROs[1] and largely zoned out of existence the ability to build other small scale homes currently being called Missing Middle Housing. When walkable neighborhoods were more the norm and you could get just a room or small place as market rate housing without hav…

Here in Seattle in the 2000s there was a huge push to tear down or repurpose all the motels along Aurora Avenue as they were viewed as promoting prostitution. Now, with many fewer motels we have shrank our pool of ultras affordable, unsubsidized housing and prostitutes just take their johns to the alleyways to do the deed.

I literally just drove southbound on Aurora about an hour ago and saw three street walkers between 160th and 80th so I think it’s safe to say that effort was a total failure.
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