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Google turned me into a serial killer

hristo-georgiev.com

241–250 of 313 posts

Re: Google turned me into a serial killer

#241
I recently encountered the same underlying problem with Google's knowledge graph.

I do a lot of scientific image analysis using an ancient (but reliable!) piece of software called ImageJ [0]. There's a more recent distro of the same called FIJI [1]. So when I tried looking for how to extract EXIF data for GPS coordinates using ImageJ (not even mentioning FIJI), Google returned an info box about the Fiji-the-nation and provided the coordinates of said nation:

https://i.imgur.com/HxSh8Zv.png

[0]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5554542/

[1]: https://imagej.net/software/fiji/

Re: Google turned me into a serial killer

#242
post #132

Google's Knowledge Graph info boxes are automatically-generated and littered with errors. I've been burned twice on operating hours, once for my local bank and once for a convenience store, driving over each time only to find the place closed. In both cases, the correct hours were posted on the business's website. I've also seen bad KG results for medical conditions, listing the wrong symptoms or describing easily-tr…

As far as I can tell the KG is also the source for Google Home when it answers questions. That's even more rough since it sounds authoritative and there are no visual cues to imply that it may be inferred.

Right. Voice assistants are a much harder format for Google, because you can’t just display a list of links. I ask my tube a question, I expect one (1) correct answer.

Re: Google turned me into a serial killer

#243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a take! Here's some mic spam I heard the other day when gaming: "There's all sorts of N*s - light brown, dark brown, even white ones. ... ... and even the homeless guy on the corner is a N" It's not the first time I've heard this sentiment, and presumably not the last. Perhaps race (and gender, sexuality, wealth, etc) are related to privilege. I mean they are used to justify why entire groups of people deserve m…

> ...he can basically be considered white for purposes of discussing his privilege. This is a distraction, and a confusing one. Calling that out is not an "attempt to quash any discussion". Let's discuss race when race is relevant, and the other 90% of the time let's discuss economic privilege.

I started my carreer with no debt for education. My family isn't rich but they aren't poor - just somewhere in the middle - above median income but not in the top tax bracket. They were able to provide help and I worked a bit to make up the difference. It's a pretty good leg-up for me, and I'm glad for it - it has made my adulthood much better than if I had to pay for loans and such.

This can directly be traced to the fact that my under-qualified father had a good job and worked hard. How did he have a good job if he was under-qualified? Well the labor pool was artificially kept small by disallowing women and people of color, and he went to college without debt. Why did he get to go to college without debt? Well his dad was able to own properties in neighborhoods where he could charge good rent, and he kept those properties nice. He was allowed to do this because he wasn't black and thus could legally own those properties, again artificially reducing his competition. He worked hard at keeping those properties nice, but he also hired a lot of people of color for low wages - they also worked hard.

So did my position happen in life because of economic privilege that my family built? Did my position in life happen because I'm white? The answer to both is the same: In part.

They worked hard. They spent wisely. They also didn't have to worry about a lot of potential competition because they weren't limited by racist rules and laws. Would they have done as well if they didn't get those protections? I doubt it though - they are good people but not top tier at thier chosen professions.

My point is, these things are really mixed together - my story here is pretty common - there's no denying that economic privilege I've enjoyed is in part because I come from a family with a bit of economic privilege - privilege gained in part due to their race.

It's better today, but it's not "fixed" by any stretch. There are still realtors that get in trouble for redlining or rejecting rental applicants for their race. There's plenty of examples, from this year even, of the same home being appraised at different values depending on if the photos around the house were of black or white families.

When something as fundamental to economic privilege as "ability to purchase things I can afford" and "ability to sell at market rates" are affected by race like that, is it really possible to say race isn't relevant to economic privilege?

Re: Google turned me into a serial killer

#245
Greg Egan (the geometer and sci-fi writer) had a similar (if much less harmful) issue for years, which he blogged about at https://www.gregegan.net/ESSAYS/GOOGLE/Google.html .

"We made a profile of you, and if you think it's wrong, you'll have to register and share the right info with us" has been one of the safest giveaways of data hucksters. I used to think Google was the one exception, but by now I believe I should have trusted the rule.

At least someone is having fun with it: https://www.forgednfast.com/why-was-google-search-telling-pe....

Re: Google turned me into a serial killer

#247
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's still Google's fault. If their service is providing out-of-date information, it's their fault. Making it sound like the business's fault for not using Google's other service is just reinforcing the idea that Google's information is the only information that's real. This is the problem with the web search and scaping provider also trying to be a thousand other services at the same time. It's a constant conflict…

> That's still Google's fault. If their service is providing out-of-date information, it's their fault. Huh? If the business owners aren't updating the correct info in My Business, how can that possibly be Google's fault?

If this were the case then one would expect Google to be paying businesses for up-to-date information with a contractual SLA.

Re: Google turned me into a serial killer

#248

> The rampant spread of fake news and cancel culture has made literally everyone who's not anonymous vulnerable. Google screwing up their knowledge graph is neither "fake news" nor "cancel culture". Misusing these terms makes them useless for actual discussion.

You missed the point. In a world of rampant “fake news” and “cancel culture”, Google screwing up their knowledge graph is dangerous ammunition that could be used to attack somebody’s reputation (which might lead to real/permanent damages before or regardless of whether the error can be corrected).

Re: Google turned me into a serial killer

#249
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Google refused to fix it, it might be different. But I expect that, if someone were to file a suit, not even trying to get it fixed wouldn't be seen as acting in good faith.

Does every person who is impacted by this kind of thing have the responsibility to do Google's QC for them? What about people who never notice it? Maybe a lawsuit would be hopeless, but it sure would be nice to see some kind of real consequences here.

How do you even contact Google about an issue like this in the first place? My only communication with Google in the capacity of a user has been automated messages.

Re: Google turned me into a serial killer

#250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> takes everything it reads on the internet at face value. it's terrible but a lot of people [0] think digital information, and thus internet, is truth [0] and if google itself falls for this.. no wonder if people do too

Google isn’t interested in truth, they are interested in information. They are provide a search engine not a truth engine. Sarcasm aside, how do we propose they determine what is truth? If we assume the internet is full of information and more truthful than not, then Google’s assumption could be accurate. Of course they do try and solve this with the knowledge graph and expert curation. Connections to verified inform…

That's the problem, isn't it. Most people want to be good, so most information on the internet is the-truth-as-they-know-it. It lulls you into a false sense of security.
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