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You’re Lucky Workers Are Only Asking for $15 an Hour

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Re: You’re Lucky Workers Are Only Asking for $15 an Hour

#11

Post by krickkrack »

janandonly wrote: post #6
janandonly wrote: post #4

Minimum wage should simply keep up with cost of living divided by the reasonable working hours. Like: cost of living is $1800 a month divided by 3 full days a week times 4 (12), times 8 hours = 1800 / (3 4 8) = 1800 / 96 = $18,75 per hour.

This is how bad things have gotten: In the 1950s, the minimum wage was supposed to be enough for a person to support their family; today the minimum wage is enough for a college student to make it until their next paycheck, not much more. Unfortunately, a lot of people in this country think this is how it should be.

The question you should be asking is why have the prices outpaced the minimum wage. Protip: $30 trillion has been printed and spent in your name.

Re: You’re Lucky Workers Are Only Asking for $15 an Hour

#12

Post by krickkrack »

janandonly wrote: post #8

The reality is that if the minimum wage had stayed consistent with productivity and inflation since 1968, America’s lowest earners would be making around $24 an hour by now, an analysis by Jacobin found last year. Fifteen dollars is not asking for a lot. In fact, it’s asking for less than the bare minimum of what we should be providing our workers.

Well the reality is also that if $24/hr was the minimum wage the price of items would be through the roof and that $24/hr would be worth less than what the $15/hr is worth now.

No such thing as a free lunch. You can't just inflate a persons worth without having to pay for it somehow.

Re: You’re Lucky Workers Are Only Asking for $15 an Hour

#13

Post by LatteLazy »

janandonly wrote: post #8

The reality is that if the minimum wage had stayed consistent with productivity and inflation since 1968, America’s lowest earners would be making around $24 an hour by now, an analysis by Jacobin found last year. Fifteen dollars is not asking for a lot. In fact, it’s asking for less than the bare minimum of what we should be providing our workers.

We don't really have a definition for productivity for most labour, let alone a measure. I take your wider point that it should be higher, but any economic arguement invoking productivity is suspect...

Re: You’re Lucky Workers Are Only Asking for $15 an Hour

#14

Post by ActorNightly »

janandonly wrote: post #8

The reality is that if the minimum wage had stayed consistent with productivity and inflation since 1968, America’s lowest earners would be making around $24 an hour by now, an analysis by Jacobin found last year. Fifteen dollars is not asking for a lot. In fact, it’s asking for less than the bare minimum of what we should be providing our workers.

The technology industry sector productivity has exploded, but to tie that back into average productivity in support of minimum wage is poor analysis.

Re: You’re Lucky Workers Are Only Asking for $15 an Hour

#15

Post by KptMarchewa »

janandonly wrote: post #6
janandonly wrote: post #4

Minimum wage should simply keep up with cost of living divided by the reasonable working hours. Like: cost of living is $1800 a month divided by 3 full days a week times 4 (12), times 8 hours = 1800 / (3 4 8) = 1800 / 96 = $18,75 per hour.

This is how bad things have gotten: In the 1950s, the minimum wage was supposed to be enough for a person to support their family; today the minimum wage is enough for a college student to make it until their next paycheck, not much more. Unfortunately, a lot of people in this country think this is how it should be.

>In the 1950s

In the 50s US was the only big developed country that was nearly untouched by the second world war. That rent has decreased massively over time. The 50s economic situation would not hold up under any other conditions.

Re: You’re Lucky Workers Are Only Asking for $15 an Hour

#16

Post by KptMarchewa »

ffggvv wrote: post #3

why would minimum wage keep pace with productivity if those workers aren’t the ones being more productive? overall productivity increase because of tech and globalization, of course a work whose productivity has stayed the same shouldn’t expect to make more just because other parts of the economy do well

>productivity

The productivity is only a matter of local purchasing power. If it were any other, why would third world barber be extremely less productive than Manhattan one?

So, when higher middle and higher classes increase their productivity by tracking global population and selling ads, the productivity of people servicing them has to increase.

Re: You’re Lucky Workers Are Only Asking for $15 an Hour

#17

Post by ActorNightly »

Federal minimum wage debate is silly. Places have varying cost of living.

Just give people income tax relief/credits based on their living situation (including credits that are paid out as cash) and let companies fight for workers with whatever wage they want.

Re: You’re Lucky Workers Are Only Asking for $15 an Hour

#18

Post by DoreenMichele »

"It's not how much you make. It's how much you keep."

One of the things that tends to not enter these discussions is that the US has torn down about a million SROs[1] and largely zoned out of existence the ability to build other small scale homes currently being called Missing Middle Housing.

When walkable neighborhoods were more the norm and you could get just a room or small place as market rate housing without having to go through some government program with long wait lists, you could live on not much money. Now a car is practically required to make life work in the US, housing is expensive as hell and then we argue about income and I get told by random internet strangers that the high cost of rent is irrelevant to discussions of homelessness, and never mind that studies contradict such claims.

Meanwhile, housing costs and the fact that it's so hard to live without a car tends to not come up at all in discussions of this sort.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_room_occupancy

Re: You’re Lucky Workers Are Only Asking for $15 an Hour

#19

Post by macspoofing »

The only argument in favour of minimum wage is that if set at a low enough level it does not seem to have a detrimental effect on core prosperity metrics like employment rate. Proponents never attempt to claim any positive effect or show evidence of it. It doesn't reduce unemployment. It doesn't reduce poverty. In many situations it hurts young people who are trying to break into an industry, low income workers and small businesses. It also incentivizes undocumented ('under the table') employment. It's very much like rent control - a policy that feels good, but either doesn't do anything or more likely actually causes pain.

Re: You’re Lucky Workers Are Only Asking for $15 an Hour

#20

Post by simfree »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #18

"It's not how much you make. It's how much you keep." One of the things that tends to not enter these discussions is that the US has torn down about a million SROs[1] and largely zoned out of existence the ability to build other small scale homes currently being called Missing Middle Housing. When walkable neighborhoods were more the norm and you could get just a room or small place as market rate housing without hav…

Here in Seattle in the 2000s there was a huge push to tear down or repurpose all the motels along Aurora Avenue as they were viewed as promoting prostitution.

Now, with many fewer motels we have shrank our pool of ultras affordable, unsubsidized housing and prostitutes just take their johns to the alleyways to do the deed.

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