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‘Vegan spider silk’ provides sustainable alternative to single-use plastics

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Re: ‘Vegan spider silk’ provides sustainable alternative to single-use plastics

#111

Post by elric »

jiofih wrote: post #98
elric wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plastic bags are such a red herring. They are not a problem in any place that has reasonably decent waste collection and inceneration. You can reuse all the plastic bags you want for the rest of your life, and it won't come close to saving the same amount of energy (or carbon or pollution or whatever metric) of skipping a single transatlanic flight. Or of owning a car. Or living in a stupidly big house. Environmental…

The two great ocean plastic patches are hundreds of km large, and made of mostly plastic bags (polyethylene) and plastic containers (polypropylene) from household items. Not any kind of industrial source. It adds up pretty quickly when there are 8 billion of us. I suspect you got it backwards here - the plastic you use in a year does much, much deeper damage than emissions from a flight. But in the end these differen…

People waste time and energy discussing plastic bags. There are laws limiting the use of plastic bags. There "durable" alternatives which are more expensive (and which are inevitably even harder to decompose). Food gets turned into "green" plastic bags. Cotton bags require orders of magnitude more water and energy to produce. Politicians waste their energy debating this stuff, when they could be working on useful legislation to reduce emissions in a meaningful way. This is virtue signalling and is mostly useless.

Much of the plastic in the great garbage patches are fishing related. And the countries where there are laws regarding plastic bags are not the ones dumping them in the ocean. That's mostly the "developing world" (pardon that phrase, can't think of a less awful one). They're clearly not going to adopt "vegan spider silk" bags or any other "greener" alternative; they don't have the money.

> the plastic you use in a year does much, much deeper damage than emissions from a flight

Nah. ~100% of the single-use plastics I use are incinerated and most of the embodied energy is recovered. I would say 100%, but I can't rule out a garbage truck crashing and losing a bit of cargo or sometihng.

Re: ‘Vegan spider silk’ provides sustainable alternative to single-use plastics

#112

Post by elric »

criddell wrote: post #100
elric wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plastic bags are such a red herring. They are not a problem in any place that has reasonably decent waste collection and inceneration. You can reuse all the plastic bags you want for the rest of your life, and it won't come close to saving the same amount of energy (or carbon or pollution or whatever metric) of skipping a single transatlanic flight. Or of owning a car. Or living in a stupidly big house. Environmental…

I'm not certain that the keyboard in a box required a plastic bag. If it isn't needed, then why not skip it?

How many more keyboards are damaged in transit with reduced packaging? Where on the packaging spectrum is the optimal value? Where reducing packaging further increases damages to the point that it's more wasteful than a bit of extra packaging? Why not aim for that optimum? Instead of token changes.

Re: ‘Vegan spider silk’ provides sustainable alternative to single-use plastics

#113

Post by shadowlight »

robertlagrant wrote: post #104
shadowlight wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Short term is relative though. Is it short term relative to a couple years, a human lifetime, or the life times of generations? Two good examples of industries that historically only looked at short term interests: Oil and Tobacco. These companies fought and tried to change reality as we know it. They tried to spin a narrative that said global warming was fake or that cigarettes are healthy. The long term effects of…

Yes they fought through the means of consumer choice, the least oppressive means in history. And they lost. Nuclear waste doesn't have fallout. Coal today is causing more radiation deaths than nuclear.

> Yes they fought through the means of consumer choice, the least oppressive means in history. And they lost.

They lied and deliberately used biased scientific research. These execs even swore on oath IN a congressional hearing before congress that tobacco was healthy even when internal documents leaked by a whistleblower told the exact opposite. This is the new way to oppress people. Lies, deception, omission and obfuscation. It's insidious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJBaBJawnSY

>Nuclear waste doesn't have fallout. Coal today is causing more radiation deaths than nuclear.

I should correct myself, Radiation. Not Fallout. Either way this is the current mantra followed by a minority of educated people who harp this endlessly. You're not wrong and you're more informed than most but you're not looking at the full picture.

There's no numbers on what this waste will do 24,000 from now. There's literally no data and no science on building structures that can encase that stuff for that long or even longer. Nobody knows. So in essence you don't know what will happen in the future. You have no clue yet you support it blindly, why?

That is my point. You don't know and you don't give a shit. The long term effects are irrelevant to you. 24,000 years in the future is not something anyone gives a shit about. Just like how the long term effects of making plastic are irrelevant to the owner of the plastic factory.

Additionally I would like to know your background. Sorry for getting personal, but background influences bias. You seem to be a guy who's super rich and an owner or shareholder of big business.

Re: ‘Vegan spider silk’ provides sustainable alternative to single-use plastics

#114

Post by tharkun__ »

jamil7 wrote: post #103
tharkun__ wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't remember exactly but I think it was a Quarks&Co waay back that compared glass bottles in the Pfandsystem with plastic ones and plastic ones that don't get reused IIRC. But don't quote me on that, try to find the episode :) What I do remember is that it's not actually as clear cut as one might think. They also accounted for the fact that glass is much heavier and thus you need to use more gasoline to ship it a…

Thanks for the thoughtful answer. I will check out those episodes. I have actually heard the thing about certain fruit and vegetables making more sense to buy from overseas than from cool storage. I guess ideally you only eat seasonal food but that leaves very little in the way of fruit and vegetables in German winter.

Especially since you nit only need cold storage. You also need to have a special atmosphere, not just regular air. That's not needed when you store your own apples over winter in cold storage because you don't need to keep them in saleable condition. But nobody buys apples that look like that, even if still totally edible and awesome for pie :)

Way less fresh stuff than we are used to nowadays, yes. But not too bad nutrient wise actually.

Germany being well suited to cabbage for example, making Sauerkraut both gives you lots of fibre and lots of vitamin C. It also stores so well that you can eat it well into the part of the year where you will have fresh veggies. It has lots of good bacteria that help your gut microbiome.

Carrots apparently store well in low tech ways too, like in wet sand preferably in a root cellar.

Most fruit nowadays are eaten for taste, not nutrients and/or people just live in the city so that the low tech ways just don't work any longer. Never mind not knowing about them either.

If you are looking for something else in this direction I totally don't remember the name and its probably 20 years old by now but I remember watching another show where they had a family live on an old farm like they would've more than 100 years ago (at that point). So they did make Sauerkraut for example. Multiple large crock pots full and all that. Not easy, not as nice as today. But what I've been thinking is that with just a tiny bit of modernisms but then also using this "old knowledge" we could all do way better for the environment. E.g. having sugar easily and cheaply available as well as lemons and pectin in packages and pressure bath pots is great. Makes awesome, safe to eat (botulism) jam from all this fruit.

Another great way in case you aren't doing it already: Rumpott. Big glazed clay pot that you start filling with with spirits such as rum and as things become available you put in things like strawberries, cherries, currants and/or plums. Not necessarily mainly used for preserving the fruit but awesome nonetheless around Xmas time (or any time during the cold months).

Re: ‘Vegan spider silk’ provides sustainable alternative to single-use plastics

#115

Post by [deleted] »

sva_ wrote: post #32
bushbaba wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I buy rice at the store. It’s in a plastic bag. This is totally in necessary. It could be in a paper bag or even a bulk-bin. I think banning the majority of single use packaging would go a long way at reducing our waste.

In the case of rice, you'll sadly quickly be dealing with these little critters: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rice_weevil

[deleted]

Re: ‘Vegan spider silk’ provides sustainable alternative to single-use plastics

#116

Post by dopidopHN »

simtel20 wrote: post #26
dopidopHN wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like we were able to store grain without plastic container for a long period of time. My limited understanding is that plastic is more convenient and we’re used to this convenience at this point.

> It seems like we were able to store grain without plastic container for a long period of time. Bulk (industrial/commercial) storage is pretty much free of plastic from what (admittedly little I understand). However for quantities that people like you and I - normal people in non-industrial settings - this was not solved well before plastics or else plastics would not be in common use, mostly for the reasons I descr…

I mean… we were moving grain around before the invention of plastic, no?

Let’s say around WW1 time. It’s post industrial revolution, but before plastic.

What’s wrong with glass? Painted glass if light is a issue.

Or metal can for unique use?

Heck. Terracotta or whatever that’s called in English worked for millenniums, no? It can seal good enough.

I know nothing about the subject. But I do like glass container a lot so that what I use at home.

I have large, medium and small ones. Some are dark for stuff that don’t like light.

I live in a place build on cockroaches, and they don’t get in.

But I kinda see your point in term of logistic / distribution…

But I persist : I think we became lazy. People could bring their empty container to the shop and fill them.

But… that’s a tiny use of plastic I guess ? That shit is so convenient and handy. We should use it for exceptional occasion rather than being that cheapo disposable material.

Edit : Re: mesuring. I’ve been to hippie shop where if you bring a outside container, they tar it before pouring the exact quantity of lentil / rice / whatever you decided to buy that day.

If you need 200g only you can. If you want 2kg, here you go.

Witch remind me: those big ol bag of the depresssion era for flour? They seems to work fine. Same for the 5kg bag of rice in fabric you find in « ethnic » store

Re: ‘Vegan spider silk’ provides sustainable alternative to single-use plastics

#117

Post by powerslacker »

shadowlight wrote: post #113
robertlagrant wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes they fought through the means of consumer choice, the least oppressive means in history. And they lost. Nuclear waste doesn't have fallout. Coal today is causing more radiation deaths than nuclear.

> Yes they fought through the means of consumer choice, the least oppressive means in history. And they lost. They lied and deliberately used biased scientific research. These execs even swore on oath IN a congressional hearing before congress that tobacco was healthy even when internal documents leaked by a whistleblower told the exact opposite. This is the new way to oppress people. Lies, deception, omission and ob…

Hi, shadowlight! Your comment here is a bit out of place. HN is a nice place where folks come for interesting news and conversation. In order to keep this place civil there are guidelines in place, which you can find at https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and review at your leisure.

I've included some here for your reference:

Be kind. Don't be snarky. Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine. Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community.

Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive.

Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. It tramples curiosity.

Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data.

Re: ‘Vegan spider silk’ provides sustainable alternative to single-use plastics

#119

Post by shadowlight »

powerslacker wrote: post #117
shadowlight wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes they fought through the means of consumer choice, the least oppressive means in history. And they lost. They lied and deliberately used biased scientific research. These execs even swore on oath IN a congressional hearing before congress that tobacco was healthy even when internal documents leaked by a whistleblower told the exact opposite. This is the new way to oppress people. Lies, deception, omission and ob…

Hi, shadowlight! Your comment here is a bit out of place. HN is a nice place where folks come for interesting news and conversation. In order to keep this place civil there are guidelines in place, which you can find at https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and review at your leisure. I've included some here for your reference: Be kind. Don't be snarky. Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine. Pleas…

Except I'm not doing ANY of that. Your comment is deceptively insulting and your tone is overly polite and fake. Case in point: "Hi shadowlight!".

Look, I remained impartial and neutral and civil in my comment. Read it carefully there is no violation of the rules, I've been here longer than you for sure so I know the rules and I know what constitutes a violation. This is NOT it.

No seriously, it's like a murderer accusing a nun of killing somebody. There is absolutely NONE of what you are claiming is going on here. It's almost an outright lie, I'm curious if you're just biased or if you're a liar.

Additionally who are you? Are you impersonating an admin? You're obviously NOT dang.

It's not written in the law nor is it in the the HN rules but walking around and pretending you're a cop is sketchy and strange. Especially when you're not even remotely qualified to do the job AND you're executing the directive incorrectly.

I'll help you differentiate between snark and no snark. This reply has a bit of snark because I'm talking to a vigilante HN cop, the OTHER reply was completely impartial and civil. That is the difference.

EDIT: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25162954

Look in the link above, another example of this guy trying and failing (he literally got scolded by dang) to enforce the rules when he's not even part of authority. I suggest you back off and use the tools given to you to moderate. Use the karma. Get to 800 and you can vote me down if you disagree.

Re: ‘Vegan spider silk’ provides sustainable alternative to single-use plastics

#120

Post by criddell »

elric wrote: post #112
criddell wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not certain that the keyboard in a box required a plastic bag. If it isn't needed, then why not skip it?

How many more keyboards are damaged in transit with reduced packaging? Where on the packaging spectrum is the optimal value? Where reducing packaging further increases damages to the point that it's more wasteful than a bit of extra packaging? Why not aim for that optimum? Instead of token changes.

I believe the "damage" they are trying to prevent are fingerprints. I don't think that's worth a plastic bag.
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