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NASA can't figure out what's causing computer issues on the Hubble telescope

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Re: NASA can't figure out what's causing computer issues on the Hubble telescope

#161

Post by privong »

atommclain wrote: post #109
prox wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn’t they also get a few older (Hubble type) spy satellites to use? I remember a story about that.

My hazy memory is that the NRO offered NASA a few satellite bodies that they could populate with optic systems. Since they were originally designed for monitoring earth they aren’t well suited for capturing data at much longer distances. If I recall correctly I think someone explained that it’s like trying to peer through a straw, it works, but ideally you’d want a much wider field of view. And apparently the James W…

The NRO satellites actually have an optical design with a larger field of view than Hubble does. One of the NRO spacecraft busses is being use for the WFIRST / Nancy Grace Roman space telescope because of the wider field of view.

Re: NASA can't figure out what's causing computer issues on the Hubble telescope

#162

Post by belter »

idreyn wrote: post #104
qzw wrote: post #7

pushes up glasses I would watch the heck out of a Twitch stream of their debugging/brainstorming sessions. I always loved the movie Apollo 13 , especially the technical troubleshooting parts.

In case you haven't seen it: https://apolloinrealtime.org/13/

Fantastic site. Thanks for sharing.

Re: NASA can't figure out what's causing computer issues on the Hubble telescope

#163

Post by yupper32 »

datalus wrote: post #137
jandrese wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Space Shuttle is the only vehicle ever built that can do in-orbit service. It's not that the Hubble is special in that regard, it is that the Shuttle was special.

So does this also mean that the ISS is no longer able to get serviced, or are there projects to work on in-orbit service vehicles?

ISS has airlocks that allow you to leave without removing all the air from the rest of the ship. Vehicles like a Dragon can attach their port to ISS, board, and then perform a space walk through the ISS's airlock.

Hubble is different. It's not like it's a ship that you can board. So you need two things: Ability to attach yourself to Hubble, and ability to leave Dragon to perform a spacewalk. It's not clear whether you can just have everyone in the Dragon suit up and open the hatch. And even then, you still need to attach yourself to Hubble somehow. I think you can via the port... but then you can't leave. Unless you go out the other door? Can you open that from the inside and get out with a space suit?

My rambling isn't meant to be an actual answer. It's more to show that it's wayyyy harder than "Let's just send up some people to Hubble!".

Re: NASA can't figure out what's causing computer issues on the Hubble telescope

#164

Post by stackbutterflow »

hungryforcodes wrote: post #155
afterburner wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what you're really saying is you'd watch the movie version of this. And considering there are no life or death stakes, it still wouldn't be as exciting as Apollo 13.

That might not be true though. This guy took about 30 hours of video of him porting an 80s version of unix to the ESP8266. Warts and all -- live! I've started to watch it and it's fascinating! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDHcGY7EzUM&t=62s You could have a whole channel with different teams debugging satellite technology and if you're bored, it would probably be quite interesting. The bigger problem is most likely…

I guess the last thing you want when you're debugging something during your work is for the whole word to watch over your shoulder.

Re: NASA can't figure out what's causing computer issues on the Hubble telescope

#165

Post by lamontcg »

scoutt wrote: post #103

> At first NASA scientists wondered if a "degrading memory module" on Hubble was to blame. Funny enough, nobody posted the link to the article that says "70% of bugs are memory issues" (or something like that) yet.

70% of all security fixes Microsoft releases are memory safety bugs.

https://news.hitb.org/content/microsoft-70-percent-all-secur...

This isn't a security issue, NASA isn't Microsoft, and physically degraded memory isn't the same as a memory safety programming bug.

I'll certainly bet that article is super popular with the rust crowd though.

Re: NASA can't figure out what's causing computer issues on the Hubble telescope

#166

Post by barkingcat »

kevmo wrote: post #151
kabdib wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Henry S F Cooper Jr.'s book The Evening Star describes some of the remote debugging and other problem solving that was necessary when the Magellan probe experienced computer problems while orbiting Venus. It's been a few decades since I read it, but it was pretty detailed and rather exciting.

This sort of comment is why I still read HN.

And the people downvoting this comment is why I will stop reading HN.

Re: NASA can't figure out what's causing computer issues on the Hubble telescope

#167

Post by skylanh »

fouric wrote: post #17

I know that, at different times, NASA has used Forth[1] and Lisp[2] in some of their space applications. Both of these languages offer REPLs that generally accelerate the debugging process, and while your "average" Lisp might be unsuitable for hard real-time applications (due to the presence of a garbage collector, usually without the hard real-time constraints that you can get out of garbage collectors with extreme…

Another comment keyed onto a concrete example of why not, so I'll go with a presumptive reason:

Some of those elements will be part of the major service windows, and have expected operational and standby lifetimes.

So if a component with two elements has a service window of 10 years, and each element contributes to meeting that service window, then you've bumped your major service window from 10 years to a significant factor less than that.

e.g. the expected use profile might be: use element 1 for 6 years or 60% of service, switch to element 2 for 4 years, replace both during 10 year maintenance window. Interrupting that by bringing element 2 up reduces that window and contingency plans if the service window cannot be met.

I don't know, and I'm just talking out my you-know-what.

Re: NASA can't figure out what's causing computer issues on the Hubble telescope

#168

Post by geocrasher »

trothamel wrote: post #120
qzw wrote: post #7

pushes up glasses I would watch the heck out of a Twitch stream of their debugging/brainstorming sessions. I always loved the movie Apollo 13 , especially the technical troubleshooting parts.

If you want to see debugging a computer in space, check out Apollo 13's sequel, Apollo 14. The moon landing is being held up by shorted-out switch that's causing the LM to abort the landing, and it's up to the programmers back home to figure out how to work around it in time to allow the landing. Apollo 13 was the story of a 'successful failure', while Apollo 14 shows how hard work and creative thinking can turn fail…

Scott Manley to the rescue: "The Computer Hack That Saved Apollo 14" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSSmNUl9Snw

Re: NASA can't figure out what's causing computer issues on the Hubble telescope

#169

Post by snowwrestler »

mcc1ane wrote: post #43
chias wrote: post #39

I can't figure out what's causing computer issues on my desk. I'm not even in space.

everything's in space

“Everything in space is trying to kill you. And everything is in space.”

Re: NASA can't figure out what's causing computer issues on the Hubble telescope

#170

Post by dang »

programmer_an wrote: post #30

I know people say this a lot, but in this case I really think a (at least partial) rewrite in Rust of the Hubble software would be very beneficial. We could gather some of the most distinguished coders here in hacker-news and create a task force to show them the benefits of rust's memory safety.

This is the third time you've posted this. Please stop.
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