Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Police have been quitting in droves in the last year

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

271–280 of 356 posts

Re: Police have been quitting in droves in the last year

#271

Post by yardie »

sakopov wrote: post #222
yardie wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We know different cops. The only cops I've met are mildly racist and intellectually lazy. Sure they were occassionally nice to have a beer with. But then they'd start talking and leave no doubt they aren't one of the good apples. Imagine getting a JIRA ticket thinking, "fucking Java bug, again. Only way to fix this is to yank the power cord out." Honestly, delivery people have to put up with way more shit and don't h…

Honestly, what conversation can we have about policing with a person who thinks a delivery driver has a more dangerous life than a cop? Only thing I can tell you is I hope you have a lot of delivery drivers living next to you if police shortage becomes a reality and crime trajectory continues on the same path as in 2020 and 2021. Or perhaps your keyboard can be as effective in self-defense as it is in the spreading o…

> crime trajectory continues on the same path as in 2020 and 2021.

Ah yes, the crime trajectory of 2020, which is different from the crime trajectory of 2000-2019. And we both know why.

Re: Police have been quitting in droves in the last year

#272

Post by RankingMember »

bena wrote: post #259
RankingMember wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You and I both have innate biases that any objections we have would be inevitably colored by, so that's not really a material statement. What I'm saying is that when you say something like: > They want to keep everything they have and have other people handle all of that stuff they don't want to ...you're criticizing a composited caricature that only exists in such a monolithic form in your head.

Fine. Find me one police station that will willingly cut its own budget and surrender the unnecessary military gear it has acquired. The police are fine with not doing those things as long as it doesn't come at their expense. You are trying to find ways to criticize my statement without acknowledging that your criticism would apply to the other poster. It's not flying.

That's definitely not happening (police cutting their own budget).

This back and forth is a little funny because I think we're both on the same page I think except for the procedural implications of the word "they" and which contexts its use may be considered over-broad. I think we'll have to agree to disagree on that aspect, but I appreciate the conversation.

Re: Police have been quitting in droves in the last year

#273

Post by 9wzYQbTYsAIc »

Hamuko wrote: post #255
9wzYQbTYsAIc wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citation?

http://www.zeroattempts.org/suicide-professions.html There's also a TED talk about suicide among veterinarians: https://youtu.be/objP3E625Xo

Unbeknownst to me, veterinarians are indeed in the top 11 job types at risk for suicide.

Teachers are not, however. Why do veterinarians and police kill themselves more than teachers do?

Stress like you mentioned, yes, but the psychology research seems to point to suicide as a poor coping skill, so it could be argued that a failure in supporting employees in building their coping skills is a contributing factor.

Re: Police have been quitting in droves in the last year

#274

Post by torstenvl »

ceejayoz wrote: post #269
torstenvl wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the trope, but it's also completely wrong. It was, after all, MLK and not Malcolm X who achieved so much of the progress in the 1960s. And it was the Log Cabin Republicans, not HRC, that won the fight for gay marriage. Advancements for minority groups are better facilitated by building bridges than by burning them.

MLK was regularly accused of burning bridges at the time, as I've demonstrated in the link.

You posted a Twitter link to one caricature cartoon in an unnamed paper.

It is dishonest to say you've "demonstrated" that anything happened "regularly."

And it is dishonest to conflate the entirety of the time elapsed - it's indisputably clear who has the better historical reputation.

And it is dishonest to suggest that a false allegation of X is moral justification to begin doing X.

Re: Police have been quitting in droves in the last year

#275

Post by jakelazaroff »

9wzYQbTYsAIc wrote: post #251
KSteffensen wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there is little that they can do to address how others will interact with them Don't police generally get training in conflict de-escalation?

Indeed they do. The training documents that I’ve seen publicly available on the internet explicitly incorporate de-escalation techniques as the first and preferred option.

On the other hand, you have people like Dave Grossman (of the "Killology Research Group") telling cops at police seminars that one of the "perks" of the job is that, after killing another human being, they'll have the "best sex [they've] had in months". https://twitter.com/RzstProgramming/status/13852746532292853...

Re: Police have been quitting in droves in the last year

#276

Post by joejerryronnie »

dfxm12 wrote: post #246
blacktriangle wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except "so many unarmed black people are shot" is a lie. A larger per-capita percentages of unarmed whites are shot than blacks.

Any number more than 0 is too many. "Cops shoot unarmed white people too" is not the defense of cops you think it is.

You are correct, however it does frame the issue differently, i.e. we need to find out how to not shoot people vs all cops are racist.

Re: Police have been quitting in droves in the last year

#277

Post by gpm »

Decabytes wrote: post #156

My father is a Police Officer and he and any other officers with military service are using their service time to retire early. None of them enjoy being cops any more. I don't think anyone, even the cops are saying that there aren't issue with today's current policing. And I think that is the biggest problem with the whole defund police movement. When you have one side shouting "All cops our bad" "F the police" etc,…

The target audience for those calls isn't the police though, so police bristling and the message not convincing them isn't a major "problem" with the message. It's not a goal either, and it brings with it some negative side effects, but given the effectiveness of the message the people behind it almost certainly consider the negative side effects worth it.

The targets are politicians (to redistribute funds), voters (to vote for politicians who will...), and prosecutors (to prosecute criminals who happen to wear a uniform).

Nor is the goal to convince cops to get other jobs. Cops don't decide on what the police budget is or how many cops there will be. The goal is to get the people who do decide that there should be less cops. Coal miners is different in that the goal was to appease the population of coal miners...

I'm not sure the message is a good idea myself, its seems unnecessarily divisive to society, and that's a bad thing. It's pretty important to understand the goals of the message when evaluating whether or not it does what it intends to though.

Re: Police have been quitting in droves in the last year

#278

Post by RankingMember »

bart_spoon wrote: post #209
RankingMember wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Got a source on that? I do, but it doesn't bear out your assertion: https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-de... > Sadly, the trend of fatal police shootings in the United States seems to only be increasing, with a total 371 civilians having been shot, 71 of whom were Black, in the first five months of 2021. In 2020, there were 1,021 fatal police shootings, and in 2019 there were 999 fatal shooting…

Note that your source is for all shootings, and they specifically make a claim about "unarmed" individuals being shot, the implication that while black individuals are more likely to be killed by police, those killed are more likely to be armed and potentially violent. I don't have a source supporting or disproving that claim, I'm just pointing out that the source you provided doesn't address the claim they are makin…

Fair point, thanks for noting

Re: Police have been quitting in droves in the last year

#279

Post by underseacables »

I don’t blame them. We’ve spent decades pumping the police into a paramilitary force that when reality meets expectations it’s just another human (often I believe) trying to make the best of their situation. Personally I distrust most police and I’m suspicious of them, but removing funding is a bad idea in my book, and I’m sad to see police leaving the profession.

When it comes right down to it, many of us need the police more than they need us. We think we’re a bunch of badd asses that can defend the homestead if we had to, but we still call 911. When the police don’t show up, we get horrible outcomes, and it’s worse for everyone.

Re: Police have been quitting in droves in the last year

#280

Post by tiahura »

yardie wrote: post #237
tiahura wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Even though these problems are societal, not really caused by the minorities themselves but rather lack of opportunities etc” That’s the line of thinking that keeps many of them in that situation. We need to be honest -African American culture is largely dysfunctional and self-destructive. 120 years ago my ancestors were dirt poor, they didn’t have “equitable” opportunities in education, housing, or employment, yet…

Hello Mods. I'd like to report a racist shithead. Thanks!

I’ve found that most people with your reaction typically have little first hand experience with the subject. Out of curiosity, how many homes in poor black neighborhoods did you visit last month? Unfortunately, I get to visit half a dozen or so each month.
Post reply on HN