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NASA can't figure out what's causing computer issues on the Hubble telescope

npr.org

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Re: NASA can't figure out what's causing computer issues on the Hubble telescope

#71

Post by meepmorp »

Koshkin wrote: post #14
qzw wrote: post #7

pushes up glasses I would watch the heck out of a Twitch stream of their debugging/brainstorming sessions. I always loved the movie Apollo 13 , especially the technical troubleshooting parts.

Debugging on a computer that is down is not a very exciting process.

No, but "Debugging on a computer that is down... in space," does sound more interesting, right?

You have a computer that you can only interact with over a radio link, and need to make it start working again with only what you know about how the system is built and a limited set of remote commands. Sounds like something I'd get obsessed with solving.

Re: NASA can't figure out what's causing computer issues on the Hubble telescope

#72

Post by beprogrammed »

desktopninja wrote: post #62

I wonder if NASA would welcome a live worldwide collaboration to try solve this problem.

Too many cooks in the kitchen.

Despite the article trying to phrase it as if they have no idea what to do, they know there computer incredibly well, it's a matter of going through the steps and isolating the problem.

Re: NASA can't figure out what's causing computer issues on the Hubble telescope

#73

Post by beerandt »

_joel wrote: post #56
beerandt wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Idk about the payload computer, but I've got to think guidance and operation controls would have at least some remnants of legacy keyhole technology, or would expose hardware details that might still be sensitive information, even if the software was a total rewrite.

Hubble is basically a US spy satellite, pointing outwards instead of inwards. I'm sure there will be similar classes of hardware still in operation, so could be some sensitivity there.

Yeah- that's what keyhole is: a codename for a series of nro/ nga spy sats.

Edit: and Hubble was built from a surplus skeleton of one, through a government transfer.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_Hole

Re: NASA can't figure out what's causing computer issues on the Hubble telescope

#74

Post by keanebean86 »

qzw wrote: post #7

pushes up glasses I would watch the heck out of a Twitch stream of their debugging/brainstorming sessions. I always loved the movie Apollo 13 , especially the technical troubleshooting parts.

This would be cool for earth satellites.

On the other hand watching a stream involving something on Mars, let alone voyager, would be pretty boring!

Send: ls

Ok let's take a 20 minute break.

Re: NASA can't figure out what's causing computer issues on the Hubble telescope

#75

Post by nonameiguess »

Koshkin wrote: post #45
desktopninja wrote: post #20

For pure comedic value: Someone deployed a K8s cluster on hubble and now its lost DNS because the master nodes connected to a starlink satellite

This is good: Starlink or such would be probably an ideal way to connect a space telescope (or any spacecraft) to the internet.

They actually use the NRO's Quasar relay satellites for this. They don't connect to the "internet," but rather to NRO mission ground stations, but they need that single point of ingress to Earth anyway because the hardware decryption modules, algorithms, and key-loading mechanisms only exist in military comms equipment, not IP routers. From there, provided the data itself is unclassified or can be downgraded, it can get to the Internet.

It's arguably an interesting question whether the government would consider using commercial relay satellites instead of just the Quasar constellation, though. The data stream doesn't need to be decrypted on the satellite, just forwarded. Obviously, you can't prevent radio from being intercepted, so throwing in a hop you don't own doesn't actually add any risk. You're totally reliant on the strength of your encryption either way.

Re: NASA can't figure out what's causing computer issues on the Hubble telescope

#76

Post by JumpCrisscross »

tomrod wrote: post #11
Koshkin wrote: post #6

They should have moved to the cloud. /ducks

This is a truly stellar wit. But in all honesty, how would an internet across the solar system work?

> how would an internet across the solar system work?

Realistically, each ~150 ms sphere would have its own cloud infrastructure. Those systems would then bridge with one another. So idk AWS on Earth and DogeNet on Mars.

I would love for a distributed model as much as the next guy, but it's unlikely to happen for the same reasons that it isn't happening today.

Re: NASA can't figure out what's causing computer issues on the Hubble telescope

#77

Post by NetOpWibby »

qzw wrote: post #44
Koshkin wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Debugging on a computer that is down is not a very exciting process.

In the movie Hero [0], two kung fu masters fight a battle purely in their minds. And when the mental fight was over, they only execute one physical move to finish the battle. Think of this as the computer equivalent of that scene. [0] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0299977/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

This sounds amazing!

Re: NASA can't figure out what's causing computer issues on the Hubble telescope

#78

Post by detaro »

tomrod wrote: post #11
Koshkin wrote: post #6

They should have moved to the cloud. /ducks

This is a truly stellar wit. But in all honesty, how would an internet across the solar system work?

Comms to rovers etc use store-and-forward protocols with pre-planning of when which node will be able to see which other node. (E.g. it's calculated when which dish on earth can send a signal that will be seen by a probe around e.g. Mars, and then when the probe can downlink to a rover on the surface, and when the replies can be transmitted)

Look into "Delay-tolerant networking" for more details.

Re: NASA can't figure out what's causing computer issues on the Hubble telescope

#79

Post by beerandt »

Denvercoder9 wrote: post #70
Koshkin wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is good: Starlink or such would be probably an ideal way to connect a space telescope (or any spacecraft) to the internet.

Actually, it wouldn't be. Starlink orbits at about the same altitude, but the satellites have their radio antenna pointed downwards to Earth, so they can't connect with each other.

Starlink has lateral uplink/downlink lasers, but yes that would be a complicated solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

Re: NASA can't figure out what's causing computer issues on the Hubble telescope

#80

Post by gautamcgoel »

qzw wrote: post #44
Koshkin wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Debugging on a computer that is down is not a very exciting process.

In the movie Hero [0], two kung fu masters fight a battle purely in their minds. And when the mental fight was over, they only execute one physical move to finish the battle. Think of this as the computer equivalent of that scene. [0] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0299977/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

Ugh, such a good movie... If you haven't seen it, do yourself a favor and go see it.
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