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Ask HN: Feeling guilty for doing the bare minimum at work

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Re: Ask HN: Feeling guilty for doing the bare minimum at work

#391

Post by derangedHorse »

tailspin2019 wrote: post #385
robocat wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, because OCD is caused by underlying physical problems with the brain that cause very specific symptoms that interfere greatly with your life. OCD is merely a label for a cluster of symptoms. It says nothing about the cause. The same can be said for the majority of psychiatric diagnoses afaik. E.g. “Doctors aren’t sure why some people have OCD.” - https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/obsessive-compulsive-dis... E…

The presumption here seems to be that just because we don't know the cause of a condition, the condition is less "valid"?

Only if your only criteria for validity for a psychiatric evaluation is having a clear correlation between brain chemistry and the diagnosis. I think the parent comment is just trying to explore where the boundary lies between mental disorder and personality trait. Maybe some psychiatrists here on HN could help add to the discussion and we could all learn more from it.

Re: Ask HN: Feeling guilty for doing the bare minimum at work

#392

Post by derangedHorse »

carrolldunham wrote: post #292
dlhavema wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm. Could that be why I fail to be a completionist in games? I play computer games, but don't give a rip about achievements or multiple playthroughs... They are fun, but as soon as I beat it, I move on.

You're joking right? You move on from a fun activity when it stops being fun you so think you may have a disorder ? I don't want to seem insensitive to genuinely troubled individuals but there seems to be a pattern on HN where every single topic about productivity is now swamped with people claiming that "ADHD" is the cause of not caring about things that aren't worth caring about and not trying hard when you don't n…

Asking if a commenter is joking goes kind of goes against the HN Guidelines regardless if you wanted to come off as insensitive or not: "Be kind. Don't be snarky. Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine. Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community."

Re: Ask HN: Feeling guilty for doing the bare minimum at work

#393

Post by Tcepsa »

anonuser123456 wrote: post #211
treesrule wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Being competent (top 20%) What sort of toxic exceptionalism led you to think that only 20% of workers are suitable for their jobs....

I would say that for the first 10 years of my programming career I was not competent. The next 5, I was marginally competent. I like this essay on the topic: http://www.norvig.com/21-days.html

Yes, this! I've been doing software development as a job in some form or other for nearly 20 years, and I finally feel like I've really started to get the hang of it over the last couple of years ~wry grin~

Re: Ask HN: Feeling guilty for doing the bare minimum at work

#394

Post by wheelinsupial »

dekhn wrote: post #143
francisofascii wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you need to spend more time finding metrics that demonstrate that value and improving those I have always had trouble with this type of nebulous goal.

The challenge for me that I always struggled to explain to my leadership is that in many cases, the time investment to make an accurate metric dashboard greatly exceeds just fixing the problem and knowing anecdotally that it works (I worked with ML Whisperers, people whom I trusted a lot to understand the underlying problems and filter out noise). For example, in my case (sending machines causing invisible data corru…

> get a few people from Search, Ads, YouTube or Research/DeepMind to say it increased revenue or decreased costs by 10%.

How does that work? Can they genuinely tell that this is the case or do they just give an anecdote or rubber stamp?

I’m sure there are dozens/hundreds of other experiments that are going on too. How do you establish the causality at that scale?

Re: Ask HN: Feeling guilty for doing the bare minimum at work

#395

Post by fargle »

Guilty, no. I mean, it's your employers and managers who should feel guilt.

Worried? Maybe. Deliberately positioning oneself as a C- (bare minimum) performer might work OK in a time of plenty.

What happens when your skills and endurance have atrophied, but the pressure is actually on?

I call folks like you "the expendables". It's a job with a purpose and I appreciate your sacrifice.

Re: Ask HN: Feeling guilty for doing the bare minimum at work

#396

Post by DevKoala »

Rastonbury wrote: post #330
DevKoala wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was a junior engineer, I quit a position over this. My manager had a direct line of sight from his desk into my screen and would give me passive aggressive comments if I wasn’t always on task. I was the best performing engineer at that company, handling a contract that was worth >20% of their revenue by myself. They loved me at that company, and I wish I had been honest with the feedback I gave during my exit…

Curious but did you not think to bring it up before quitting if it was such a big factor in your leaving? You'd have decent clout with your manager's manager in making sure he doesn't micromanage or give passive aggressive comments.

The company had less than 20 employees, everybody knew each other, and my manager was the owner, a self-made man with a really high opinion of himself due to survivorship bias. Also, it was my first job after my failed startup right out of college. It was really tough for me to give feedback, and I didn’t even know if I was just being lazy or the problem was the way things were being run.

Looking back at it, I understand why I quit, but back then I couldn’t even put it in words. Thankfully, I managed to keep all the friendships I made, including my ex boss.

Re: Ask HN: Feeling guilty for doing the bare minimum at work

#397

Post by tailspin2019 »

astrange wrote: post #390
Apocryphon wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't the medications amphetamines though? Certainly the backlash against over-diagnosis of ADHD in the '00s was fear of kids given drugs during their formative years for "being rambunctious." Very adults it's likely different though.

> Aren't the medications amphetamines though? Yeah, and? There are literally no long term side effects of taking them (except for maybe some positive ones.)

> There are literally no long term side effects of them

I’m not sure this is true

Re: Ask HN: Feeling guilty for doing the bare minimum at work

#398

Post by shae »

Apocryphon wrote: post #386
astrange wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe they actually were ADHD due to childhood lead exposure. ADHD treatments don't have many downsides (although I'm sure people thought they did at the time) except for reducing your appetite and doctor's bills, so it's not like it caused long term harm.

Aren't the medications amphetamines though? Certainly the backlash against over-diagnosis of ADHD in the '00s was fear of kids given drugs during their formative years for "being rambunctious." Very adults it's likely different though.

Not all the medications are amphetamines. The most popular medication, Ritalin, is not an amphetamine.

Even the ADHD prescribed amphetamine medication is dextroamphetamine, not the scary methamphetamine.

There are also several medications that are not stimulants. While I do believe that children should be prescribed the minimum medications during their formative years, I've talked to several teachers whose students now have a prescription because the children were doing school at home and finally followed the teacher's recommendation.

Re: Ask HN: Feeling guilty for doing the bare minimum at work

#399

Post by golergka »

borski wrote: post #192
unicornfinder wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who highly suspects they may have ADHD, how was the diagnosis life changing? Was it through medication, or simply through understanding yourself better?

Both; but honestly, the latter was more important. Simply having a name for the reasons why, no matter how hard I tried and no matter how much I really, genuinely, truly wanted to, there were certain things I just couldn't do... that alone was extremely relieving. And infuriating. And vindicating. But mostly, genuinely relieving. I was able to accept that I wasn't an incompetent fool, incapable of being useful - I ha…

Wow. I've been reading this whole thread, thinking if I might or might not have ADHD, but your point about perception of success and failure hit it right home. Never seen it described exactly like this, thanks a lot!

Re: Ask HN: Feeling guilty for doing the bare minimum at work

#400

Post by golergka »

treesrule wrote: post #129
anonuser123456 wrote: post #115

If your employer is happy with you, there is no reason to 'feel guilty'. Being competent (top 20%) and working 3hrs / day is way more productive than a middle performer working 12 hrs / day. In my personal experience: I work with people that, in 5 minutes, I can accomplish more than they can in a day. And those people are not stupid / unmotivated. I also work with people that, in 5 minutes, can accomplish more than I…

> Being competent (top 20%) What sort of toxic exceptionalism led you to think that only 20% of workers are suitable for their jobs....

A few years in any professional field like software engineering is enough.
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