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Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

nytimes.com

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Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#491

Post by techrat »

dragonwriter wrote: post #489
techrat wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet magically, when the state has held a Democratic majority, the first time there's been a budget surplus since the dot-com boom. The city is not the top level when it comes to funding, champ. It takes, literally in this case, a decade to start to undo the damage of Republican misappropriation and sabotage.

> Yet magically, when the state has held a Democratic majority, the first time there's been a budget surplus since the dot-com boom. To be fair, that's probably as much due to a ballot measure lowering the budget threshold down from a 2/3 supermajority and thereby actually making the state governable. OTOH, that measure was heavily pushed by the Democratic governor and legislature and opposed by Republicans, so...

In 1962. The repeal had been knocked down multiple times in proposition attempts thereafter.

Yet Republicans would campaign on preventing the repeal of such a measure and it didn't happen until Democrats had full control of the Capital again. Hmmm, curious. It's almost as if Republicans have a history of being unable or unwilling to work with others.

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#492

Post by Trinotom »

borodi wrote: post #337
Applejinx wrote: post #321

A lot of people here need to talk to some entrepreneurs. It doesn't matter how good, or how well funded, the school system is: if the family is poor, you're not going to be able to float rent on the storefront you need, or purchase initial inventory of whatever you're making, much less soak up a few false starts, much less take out a bank loan to do any of these things. Period. This does not in ANY WAY mean there sho…

As always, the easiest way to be successful is to be born in a successful family

The definition of success is very intricate, from having much money, friends, stable and rewarding jobs to winning novel prizes or just getting married, living for themselves. But at least, I don't think it's successful to be content without having hardships or discipline for their families.

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#493

Post by KSteffensen »

water8 wrote: post #351
borodi wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As always, the easiest way to be successful is to be born in a successful family

Its better to be born in the 95th percentile in intelligence vs the 95th percentile in wealth in terms of where you will actually end up.

The Dunedin study found that intelligence is a weak predictor for life success[0].

From my brief search (they have a LOT of publications) I couldn't find any publications from them on family wealth as a predictor.

[0]: https://dunedinstudy.otago.ac.nz/files/1571970023782.pdf

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#494

Post by flavius29663 »

asdff wrote: post #477
flavius29663 wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It funds things like higher education and healthcare The US funds the healthcare above and beyond what any other country on Earth is doing. I think it's 50% higher than the next contender, per capita. As for higher education, the US universities are doing much much better than their European counterparts. If you get a STEM degree, you're basically set for life in the US, pay your debts in no time and then enjoy a s…

Not every US STEM degree gets you a six figure job. STEM majors are some of the most awarded degrees in all colleges; there is a huge oversupply in the labor pool unless you are able to differentiate yourself which is not easy and usually requires post graduate education or nepotism. For the vast majority of STEM B.S. degrees, even a computer science degree in the midwest, you might be toiling for 60k-80k too. No one…

I was talking about averages, you counter with a very specific example: midwest or southern states software devs.

I could counter with Italy, where you can call yourself lucky if you get 2000 Euros a month after taxes, as a senior dev. And it's not a particularly cheap country either.

I think it's more useful to look at averages, e.g. https://www.daxx.com/blog/development-trends/it-salaries-sof...

Keep in mind that the sums are usually before tax. Income taxes in the US for a 100k salary can be as low as 10%. Add 5% for healthcare and you end up with 85% in your pocket. In Europe, with the exception of Switzerland, they will take 45-55% of your money, especially above 60k; so from a 60k salary in Germany you take home 30k.

I would say 30k vs 85k is a lot to make up the difference for "free" college and "free" healthcare.

If you could choose free university and then 50 years of 30k income VS 200k in debts and then 50 years of 85k income, what would you choose?

But again, my point is that the US education and healthcare have enough funding even with the lower taxation. Funding is not a problem, US has more or similar funding than other developed nations: healthcare, education, welfare benefits.

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#495

Post by codq »

duud wrote: post #465
borodi wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As always, the easiest way to be successful is to be born in a successful family

And in a (economically) successful country. You make more as a ditch digger in a developed country than a doctor, engineer, etc in a developing country.

Perhaps, but relatively speaking it’s not necessarily a better life. You’d likely rather be a doctor in Belize then a ditch digger in Manhattan, quality of life-wise.

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#496

Post by foolinaround »

jwilber wrote: post #479
foolinaround wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

thats great for you both, but its' one person's data point, that does not take away from the overall statement. What I meant by "attention to child" is that children generally push at boundaries, and there needs to be mature people in their life who keep watch and bring them back in.

You call out that response for being anecdotal, but provide zero evidence in your original claim or follow up response.

Sorry, I thought it is a no-brainer, but here is some from a google search. I dont think there are any studies claiming the opposite.

https://lib.dr.iastate.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=16288...

https://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2016/dads-play-key-role-in-chi...

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#497

Post by sokoloff »

WalterBright wrote: post #469
sokoloff wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this analogy, the foundation is “the years of schooling the student has already experienced”.

There's no evidence that things for the first year students have improved.

Does Washington do standardized testing on kindergartners or first graders? If not, I agree with your claim that there’s no evidence [in any direction] to test this specific hypothesis most precisely.

I agree with (what I believe is part of) your position that lack of money isn’t the sole (and not even primary) problem in our schools. More money alone won’t fix anything. Maybe it’ll bring back music or other specials that some kids like, but money alone won’t put our education on par with Switzerland, China, or Singapore.

It’s also probably true that whatever is actually needed will also need money, at a minimum in the transition period. It’s a necessary but not sufficient input.

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#498

Post by shreyshnaccount »

No it's not. Quality education has always been for the rich and continues to be. Not to be dramatic but meritocracy feels like a lie at this point. I got accepted to a T30 uni, but surprise surprise, there's no way I can attend it, cuz they don't give scholarships based on financial need, and the ones which do, would have me graduating into 6fig debt... Not in this economy I'm not gonna do that... Amazing feeling to have your dreams crushed and hard work rendered useless just due to green paper Frankly the headline is pretentious af for even asking this question

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#499

Post by mensetmanusman »

codq wrote: post #495
duud wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And in a (economically) successful country. You make more as a ditch digger in a developed country than a doctor, engineer, etc in a developing country.

Perhaps, but relatively speaking it’s not necessarily a better life. You’d likely rather be a doctor in Belize then a ditch digger in Manhattan, quality of life-wise.

Not sure, the people I know they get to do construction outside and have a very defined work/non-work schedule don’t necessarily hate their job.

Quality of life wise, what really matters is how secure you feel in regards to family life.

For example, one might likely rather be a ditch digger in Manhattan then a doctor in Brazil that has to live with the daily threat of kidnappings.

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#500

Post by oriolid »

zepto wrote: post #464
oriolid wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Linux was developed in Finland. I'd say that Linux kernel was developed by an international network of hackers with a Finnish leader, and benefited a lot from GNU userland. If you want more Finnish operating system, try Jolla. There was a lot of Finnish contribution to Series 60 too, but it's kind of awful.

> I'd say that Linux kernel was developed by an international network of hackers with a Finnish leader, and benefited a lot from GNU userland. Linus did quite a bit before the network of hackers joined in. But I don’t disagree with you. My main point is that the US, and big American tech companies don’t have a monopoly on talent.

Not monopoly, but they do pay well and let developers do things, and those two things attract talent. AFAIK it used to be really uncommon in European companies to have advanced career path for engineering, and switching to management is still kind of expected.
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