A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities • Hacker News Board

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#941

Post by CRConrad » Thu, Jun 24, 2021, 9:52 AM UTC

lovegoblin wrote: post #483

r00fus wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who is CIS, I also don't try to imply a sexuality in myself or others unless I'm with people I know. I try not to speak about my wife, but my "spouse" and try to use gender-neutral terms where appropriate.

> As someone who is CIS I often wonder where this misconception originated: why do people think that "cis" is an acronym? What do they think it stands for? It's just a prefix; the antonym of "trans."

You see it with "the FED" too. I think it's an American thing; maybe the Yanks have so many TLAs that they automatically assume anything TL is an A.

(And don't get me started on "Oh-bee-gee-why-en", often capitalised as "OB-GYN" in writing... Sheesh, what an idiotic spelling of "gynecologist"!)

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#942

Post by CRConrad » Thu, Jun 24, 2021, 9:54 AM UTC

f38zf5vdt wrote: post #220

smoldesu wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was ironically one of the things that was hardest about coming out as gay, for me. Nobody ever treated me the same way again. I was either uncomfortably praised or silently judged, with practically no in-between. Suffice to say, my sexuality is on a need-to-know basis, now.

As a visible minority because of my race, I wish I had the option. I just try to avoid meat space.

Heh... So, if you've had the option to WFH, the pandemic has been more if a blessing than a curse?

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#943

Post by CRConrad » Thu, Jun 24, 2021, 10:06 AM UTC

bjoli wrote: post #503

tomp wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It took a lot of mental self-awareness on my part, and reading a lot of such statements, to recognise how strongly I've been mentally programmed (brainwashed) by society to think of men as evil , and not even flinch when I used to read statements like the one above (implying / assuming that men are, by default, extremely violent and dangerous, and that everyone is justified by judging every man as such). It's easier…

I am a man, and I don't want to go in to the same bathroom as 5 other men, especially not of they are a group and drunk. The reason is simple: I have found it much more common for men to take pleasure in having power over other people by threat of violence. They are assholes of course, but that shit is pretty common. I would even claim that anyone that says otherwise probably never did more than 4 pub rounds. Or went…

> I am a man, and I don't want to go in to the same bathroom as 5 other men, especially not of they are a group and drunk. The reason is simple: I have found it much more common for men to take pleasure in having power over other people by threat of violence.

Five drunk guys at the urinal? Heck, there's reason enough to avoid that just because they're liable to piss all over your shoes.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#944

Post by dougmwne » Thu, Jun 24, 2021, 10:12 AM UTC

TimTheTinker wrote: post #864

dougmwne wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only weird to you because you are almost certainly straight, cis and male. Let me explain. All of society is structured around your identity. Like the fish, you can't even see the water because you have always been in it. I'm unlikely to help you see the water, but let me at least try. If you meet a friend, he might comment he saw a movie with his new girlfriend. He shows you a photo on his phone and you say she…

Thanks for the thoughtful comment. I wasn't thinking as much about normal conversations - "I was at lunch with my boyfriend", etc. It's one thing to say that, it's quite another to make statements to people about what sort of sex you want to have -- that's what I find awkward. I guess the takeaway is that sex is pretty central to civilization and society, as it's a prerequisite to and determinant of family structure.…

I really do appreciate your response and glad I got through. And yeah, sex is pretty foundational to society. As I get older I see that more and more. Just know that the next time a person comes out to you explicitly and says "I'm gay!", they are not trying to awkwardly insert their sex lives, they are doing the best they could to get through a potentially difficult moment with a person they had to come out to. This is especially true when a person is at the beginning of their journey to accept themselves and find acceptance in others.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#945

Post by dalbasal » Thu, Jun 24, 2021, 10:17 AM UTC

_etyf wrote: post #653

dalbasal wrote: post #564

I'm surprised that the article isn't more sports-centric. This "battle," has been mostly an elite-ish, university-centric one this far. Gender studies departments were always known as bastions of avant garde quirkiness. The Germaine Greare's of the world have always been at war with someone, name-calling and whatnot. Theatrical protests aren't new, and neither is their intensity. Leakage into the real world was indir…

The battle has very much leaked off-campus, and not just in sports. One intense area of disagreement involves the rights of trans children to medically transition without their parents' knowledge or consent. Research consistently shows that most children who identity as trans revert to their original gender identity post-puberty [0]. However, more states are now enabling children to seek and obtain irreversible gende…

I didn't mean literally. However, like prison & shelter issues, this is something that most people don't encounter. Most often, you'd hear about it from political polars as a "look how crazy these guys are."

It's never going to rival sports as a populist issue.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#946

Post by raxxorrax » Thu, Jun 24, 2021, 10:25 AM UTC

JohnBooty wrote: post #338

freemint wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure if your definition of academic freedom applies equally all over the world. I understand Humboldts definition of "Freiheit von Forschung und Lehre" an university is obligated to support you once you have been taken on and to fire people because of their research alone would violate it.

In this specific case she was a guest of Essex University and not a tenured professor there, so they were under no specific obligation to provide a platform for her. Jo Phoenix, a professor of criminology at Britain’s Open University, was due to give a talk at Essex University To your point though, I wouldn't find it good for a tenured professor to lose their job for such a thing. However, even the idea of tenure rea…

The way people aligned to academic gender and racism ideas justify discharging other tells me a lot about the quality of said ideas. It happens in other faculties too, but not nearly that often and that decisive.

You have to convince others of your ideas at some point...

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#947

Post by darkerside » Thu, Jun 24, 2021, 10:33 AM UTC

chc wrote: post #544

s1artibartfast wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of shades of trans support, If you asked the most extreme questions you would probably get different answers. It is one thing to ask people should be able can use a bathroom, and another to ask questions about personal sexlife and behavior. i.e. if you asked people if you consider transwomen equally with women at birth as sexual partners, I bet the numbers fall through the floor.

Well, sure. If you ask people whether they consider Black and Asian men equally as sex partners, the numbers would also fall through the floor. This doesn't mean Black or Asian men are less of men, or even that they're necessarily against either of those groups, it just means people have preferences in what their partners' bodies are like. My point is just that "trans women are women and trans men are men" is actuall…

I don't think that passes the smell test. What study would you cite to support that assertion?

You could ask whether there is a study to assert parent poster's assertion, too. All I could say is that the burden of proof seems to fall on you with your statement, but most would take parent's at face value.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#948

Post by raxxorrax » Thu, Jun 24, 2021, 11:30 AM UTC

freemint wrote: post #870

neartheplain wrote: post #794

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here are the numbers: In 2019, the most recent year for which the FBI has data, the total US homicide rate was 4.3 deaths per 100,000 people [0] (possible underestimate; incident reporting is voluntary, and 25% of police departments don't submit expanded homicide data). Human Rights Campaign recorded the deaths of 25 transgender and gender non-conforming people in 2019 [1]. There are an estimated 1 million people who…

Don't role your own aggregate statistics when the thing you try to derive by mashing together things created for different purposes is measured or estimated by people. I don't role my own encryption for public use either.

Come on, that is just false. Don't believe a statistic you haven't doctored yourself is a common saying.

But data evaluation is certainly something you should do yourself, because blindly trusting anyone else would be naive.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#949

Post by raxxorrax » Thu, Jun 24, 2021, 11:34 AM UTC

mike00632 wrote: post #252

newsbinator wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I defer to nicknames, but if the State or my university or my company forced me to, on pain of getting fired, expelled, fined, or worse, then I wouldn't want to defer to nicknames anymore on principle. I don't care what gender someone calls themselves, and as a nice person I'll try to remember and use it, so long as they don't attempt to get me fired if I get it wrong.

What if you insist on calling that person by the wrong name even though you know it's not what they prefer? That seems like a pretty good example of creating a toxic work environment and you should be fired over it.

The toxic work environment argument mostly comes from people creating such environments to be honest. As long as people let others disagree, nobody should be fired. If that isn't possible, politics will again be banned as a topic in workplaces.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#950

Post by washadjeffmad » Thu, Jun 24, 2021, 11:39 AM UTC

dbsmith83 wrote: post #724

omegaworks wrote: post #701

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the very first paragraph: >(trans-exclusionary radical feminist, a slur) Bigots offended at being called out on their bigotry. The Economist reveals their bias and their stake in the debate by asserting that "terf is a slur" and later by representing "gender critical" ideologies as "mainstream." It's plainly irresponsible journalism and not at all sober.

> By allowing the author to hide behind anonymity it reveals The Economist's biases and their stake in the debate by asserting that "terf is a slur" and representing "gender critical" ideologies as "mainstream." Why do you wish the author was named--so you can have their head? You sound like the people in the article trying to stifle debate

There are plenty of great reasons why author's in reputable publications should (and shouldn't) be identified. I frequently track threads by journalist in order to understand bias.

For instance, when I see scathing articles about Bernie Sanders being America's greatest enemy appear across ostensibly venerated and elite publications, I can look up an author's catalog of published work and discover that they are eg- an old money heiress and New England socialite with deeply vested interest in not reforming or regulating causes of wealth inequality who frequently publishes to centrist and liberal-right outlets.

Once patterns are identified, other journalists can research and report on what those publications, their editors, or their journalists are attempting to manufacture. Caught early, before they become quoted sources and internally promoted voices of authority, the public has a better chance at gleaning who the real stakeholders are.

Anyway, it was recently identified that reassignment surgery costs around $150,000, and at a rate of roughly 1% of the population, that's a multi-billion dollar market without established brand loyalty. The corporations that capture that are expected to be well served.