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You Weren't Meant to Have a Boss

paulgraham.com

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Re: You Weren't Meant to Have a Boss

#31

Post by colonelxc »

coderdude wrote: post #14
dkokelley wrote: post #9

http://www.hnsearch.com/search#request/all&q=you+weren%2... How is it that this article is getting reposted? It's a great article, I know. But couldn't the HN community submit and upvote new and current articles? Wouldn't the community be better served by this? I suppose if enough members haven't seen it then the upvotes and front page placement are a net gain, but please don't let this stuff rise to the top just bec…

The weird thing is how selective HN is about duplicate articles. I've submitted things just to find out they were originally posted up to 3 years ago after it redirects me to the submission. A PG essay can be resubmitted, same URL and title, without issue at least several times (as the HN search link shows). I'd love to know how HN goes about deciding which content is OK to resubmit over and over again.

It keeps track of the sites in memory. That means if the machine gets kicked, old urls can be submitted again.

It is also just simple URL based limitations, adding some bogus parameters to a url, or a hash, would be enough to get around it.

I don't know the specifics of the algo, but it may also add sites to its cache if someone visits one of the old comments pages, which could make it look more sporadic and picky.

Re: You Weren't Meant to Have a Boss

#32

Post by mannicken »

dgallagher wrote: post #22
mannicken wrote: post #10

There's just one thing about this article that makes me feel eerie. It sounds like a piece of propaganda. PG tries evoking an emotional response out of the reader, pulling some random unsupported facts out of nowhere, like a religious preacher who'll do anything to support his point of view. What doesn't help is that since he's an investor, he is directly profiting from people working for rates below market rates and…

I've always felt that PG uses his essays to flesh out ideas, thinking out loud. By putting it out there, others' can question things and draw their own conclusions (plus they provide a feedback loop). It's like overhearing a really intelligent person talking at a bar; you don't have to agree with everything they say, and they might be wrong, but it does get you thinking... His usage of metaphors paints a more vivid p…

I have to admit I wanted to spice things a bit, playing devil's advocate on purpose. Make the discussion more interesting by challenging status quo and see if it holds up.

Re: You Weren't Meant to Have a Boss

#33

Post by adnanymously »

Humans as small groups have always had a leader. And that leader in earlier times was the guy who was most powerful. When bosses are actually capable of being a boss (in terms of their ability), we're okay with it. It's only the dumb boss that irritates.

Re: You Weren't Meant to Have a Boss

#34

Post by byrneseyeview »

mannicken wrote: post #15
moondistance wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rates below market rates? I think most people would disagree. They aren't salaried but the equity often pays well.

Good question. http://ycombinator.com/apply.html tells us that three founders (common situation) will get $20, 000, or roughly $6,667 per person. For three months. That's around $2200/month for skilled work, and it's not even a full-time job: http://www.paulgraham.com/wealth.html " Instead of working at a low intensity for forty years, you work as hard as you possibly can for four. " That sounds like 12-14hr/day, inc…

The impression I get is that YC's investment is roughly analogous to a company paying your cab fare to get you to their office for an interview. Focusing on the one precisely measurable part of the transaction misses a whole lot.

Re: You Weren't Meant to Have a Boss

#35

Post by pg »

alf wrote: post #25
wpietri wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the difference there is that books, computers, cars, and planes are tools that one can choose to work with, rather than a system that one has to work within. More briefly: you use tools, but hierarchical power structures use you. And it's worth noting that Graham is working on creating alternatives ( coughycombinatorcough ), so your grumping seems a little out of place.

Humans also weren't meant to build pyramids, send men to the moon, or write operating systems. Big organizations are needed for big problems. But I do generally agree with the article that big organizations are not the best place to develop as a programmer.

Big organizations are needed for big problems.

The jury is still out on that one. The trend lately has been in the other direction.

Re: You Weren't Meant to Have a Boss

#37

Post by dgallagher »

mannicken wrote: post #32
dgallagher wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always felt that PG uses his essays to flesh out ideas, thinking out loud. By putting it out there, others' can question things and draw their own conclusions (plus they provide a feedback loop). It's like overhearing a really intelligent person talking at a bar; you don't have to agree with everything they say, and they might be wrong, but it does get you thinking... His usage of metaphors paints a more vivid p…

I have to admit I wanted to spice things a bit, playing devil's advocate on purpose. Make the discussion more interesting by challenging status quo and see if it holds up.

Ah ha. Fun fun! :)

Re: You Weren't Meant to Have a Boss

#38

Post by pg »

mindcrime wrote: post #24

Or rather, a large organization could only avoid slowing down if they avoided tree structure. And since human nature limits the size of group that can work together, the only way I can imagine for larger groups to avoid tree structure would be to have no structure: to have each group actually be independent, and to work together the way components of a market economy do. That might be worth exploring. I suspect there…

Me too. But the organization doesn't have to be a "firm" in the usual sense...

Re: You Weren't Meant to Have a Boss

#39

Post by GavinB »

wpietri wrote: post #16
quanticle wrote: post #7

You weren't meant to have a boss. You also weren't meant to read, work on computers, drive cars, fly, or even practice agriculture. Its very easy to criticize any modern institution on the grounds of, "Our H. Erectus ancestors didn't do it, so it must be unnatural." Rather than snark about how the phenomenon is bosses is somehow unnatural and antithetical to human existence, why don't we work on creating institutions…

I think the difference there is that books, computers, cars, and planes are tools that one can choose to work with, rather than a system that one has to work within. More briefly: you use tools, but hierarchical power structures use you. And it's worth noting that Graham is working on creating alternatives ( coughycombinatorcough ), so your grumping seems a little out of place.

Is there any successful YC company that doesn't have bosses and employees? There is even a feature on HN designed specifically for bosses to find employees.

Re: You Weren't Meant to Have a Boss

#40

Post by kennystone »

I agree with this article. What I find strange, however, is how he implies silicon valley is the normal way for humans to act, and yet the default way to do business there is to take huge amounts of venture capital. VC results in all sorts of restrictions employees and an impetus for the company to radically grow into the kind of large, unnatural company he's writing about. "Come to y-combinator to act more human so you can build a less human company if you're really successful!" The 37signals style relaxation bootstrapped business, however, well that seems to fit much better.
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