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Ask HN: Notion is withholding my company data, what can I do?

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Re: Ask HN: Notion is withholding my company data, what can I do?

#121

Post by lhorie »

sebmellen wrote: post #59
boplicity wrote: post #40

Here's what Notion.so says about this on their website. https://www.notion.so/Back-up-your-data-1a8eb5bdfce34d19a636... - *I tried clicking the `Export all workspace content` button but received an error message.* Oof, so sorry about this For particularly large workspaces, the `Export all workspace content` function may have some trouble completing the export. We're investigating this issue and hope to have a resolut…

God, if there’s one thing I hate it’s that condescending millennial speak to cover up a serious issue. > Oof, so sorry about this... What??? If your company is broken don’t make it seem like a funny “aw shucks” blunder.

I mean, the sentence itself doesn't seem all that bad IMHO, it's the context that makes the difference. If I'm in a real time conversation actively trying to fix the issue, saying "oof, so sorry about this" seems like a perfectly genuine way of expressing the mutual feeling of frustration.

Writing this same sentence with an emoji beside it on a customer support documentation page, however, looks quite unprofessional. In these types of contexts, the general writing etiquette is that one is expected to write using a less casual tone.

Re: Ask HN: Notion is withholding my company data, what can I do?

#122

Post by tw04 »

hluska wrote: post #113
freedomben wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, I've written stuff very much like that before for customers that were hitting bugs. I wasn't trying to be "aw shucks" funny. I legitimately feel sorry that my shitty software was breaking on them. That they provided a workaround seemed like a nice thing to me. In fact that whole message seemed pretty good to me. It's probably not entirely that employee's fault but they're still trying to empathize and he…

I’m obviously in the minority here but I appreciate that kind of tone. Yeah, it sucks that I’ve found a bug but the vast majority of the time, the devs involved hate the bug more than I do. I think the best way to handle support is to be yourself.

Unless you have a personal relationship with the person on the other end (like a customer you have been helping for years and are on a first name basis with), the best way to handle support is to be overly professional.

Casual is almost always a recipe for disaster if the person on the other end doesn't know you. It makes it sound like you aren't taking their issue seriously.

Re: Ask HN: Notion is withholding my company data, what can I do?

#123

Post by floralz »

freedomben wrote: post #70
sebmellen wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

God, if there’s one thing I hate it’s that condescending millennial speak to cover up a serious issue. > Oof, so sorry about this... What??? If your company is broken don’t make it seem like a funny “aw shucks” blunder.

Interesting, I've written stuff very much like that before for customers that were hitting bugs. I wasn't trying to be "aw shucks" funny. I legitimately feel sorry that my shitty software was breaking on them. That they provided a workaround seemed like a nice thing to me. In fact that whole message seemed pretty good to me. It's probably not entirely that employee's fault but they're still trying to empathize and he…

It's too lighthearted when you're dealing with a pissed customer and is only going to escalate the situation. If you truly want to show empathy and provide good service, I really hope you rethink the approach you take moving forward. In this case "oof" reads like "sux to be u, bye!" and you have several other people confirming that here. Now you can't say you don't know.

Re: Ask HN: Notion is withholding my company data, what can I do?

#124

Post by Gelob »

I fucking hate the excuses that people who work in agile/scrum give. It's called agile development but sorry I can't fix your issue until a story is created and groomed then sized then we might put it into a Sprint and work on it and then maybe we will put it into a release.

"We have a large backlog". How about you take it out of the backlog and work on fixing it or explain to me why it's complicated so I can empathize

Re: Ask HN: Notion is withholding my company data, what can I do?

#125

Post by ivanzhao »

Hi, Ivan here. I am the CEO of Notion.

I'm really, really sorry about this experience!

Our in-product export feature exports to a single file, and for very large workspaces this doesn't scale very well. (I know this is not an excuse for this experience. We'll do better and prioritize fixing this!)

Could you email me at ivan at makenotion.com? We'll work to fix this for you immediately.

Apologies, and really appreciate you for understanding!

Ivan

Re: Ask HN: Notion is withholding my company data, what can I do?

#126

Post by pmontra »

pm90 wrote: post #78
naikrovek wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's disrespectful to respond like that, to me. infantilizing; like I'm incapable of processing a response that is genuine. "uwu we'we sowwy dis isn't wewking anymowe.. pwease don't be angwy wiff us"

Interesting. To me, its a strong signal that the person on the other end is not an offshored, overworked drone but someone who is treated well by the company and cares enough to express empathy.

There is no person on the other end. There is a program, so definitely a drone, maybe wrote by offshored developers maybe not, definitely overworked or they'll have the time to fix the bug or implement the feature instead of replacing it with a message.

A person doing the export manually would be OK as a workaround and instead all they have is that message. That's not OK.

Re: Ask HN: Notion is withholding my company data, what can I do?

#127

Post by gostsamo »

pm90 wrote: post #78
naikrovek wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's disrespectful to respond like that, to me. infantilizing; like I'm incapable of processing a response that is genuine. "uwu we'we sowwy dis isn't wewking anymowe.. pwease don't be angwy wiff us"

Interesting. To me, its a strong signal that the person on the other end is not an offshored, overworked drone but someone who is treated well by the company and cares enough to express empathy.

Don't try to be funny in your docs. If you want to convey information, make it clean, precise, and to the point. Do not assume and do not distract.

Please.

P.S. Jokes are not totally forbidden, but they should be more subtle and not so intrusive as "You are asking me a question, but here I'll give you a performance instead of an answer".

Re: Ask HN: Notion is withholding my company data, what can I do?

#128

Post by bostonsre »

sebmellen wrote: post #59
boplicity wrote: post #40

Here's what Notion.so says about this on their website. https://www.notion.so/Back-up-your-data-1a8eb5bdfce34d19a636... - *I tried clicking the `Export all workspace content` button but received an error message.* Oof, so sorry about this For particularly large workspaces, the `Export all workspace content` function may have some trouble completing the export. We're investigating this issue and hope to have a resolut…

God, if there’s one thing I hate it’s that condescending millennial speak to cover up a serious issue. > Oof, so sorry about this... What??? If your company is broken don’t make it seem like a funny “aw shucks” blunder.

I take it you haven't worked in support before. It's just a support rep trying to defuse some tension, there is basically nothing they can do except escalate and provide work arounds. Management should be the ones that you get angry at. Getting angry at the front line reps does nothing except to make some poor guy or girl more stressed.

Re: Ask HN: Notion is withholding my company data, what can I do?

#129

Post by dahart »

bentcorner wrote: post #51
chirau wrote: post #29

A threat of legal action will probably go a long way. I might be wrong, but I think it is actually illegal to withhold people's data upon request, especially if you claim to offer the feature. Also false advertising. I can see how they would try to skirt around it though, they'd probably say that it is a temporary glitch but the functionality is available. That way it wouldn't be them withholding your data or false a…

IANAL but would the GPDR apply here? Gut feeling is that Notion needs to have a way for customers to export their personal data to comply.

Only if @bertdc is an EU resident. The company is a US company, so GDPR does not apply to US customers. And even if @bertdc was in the EU, applicability can still hinge on whether the company “profiles” customer behavior and/or advertises specifically to EU residents.

Also GDPR can’t compel a company to not write bugs. If they’re legitimately trying to fix it - and they might be - then they might not be out of compliance were the GDPR to be applicable. Threatening legal action might have the unintended consequence of slowing things down rather than fixing anything.

* Oh, and TIL GDPR does not apply to company data https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27613213

Re: Ask HN: Notion is withholding my company data, what can I do?

#130

Post by TedDoesntTalk »

eli wrote: post #85
freedomben wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, I've written stuff very much like that before for customers that were hitting bugs. I wasn't trying to be "aw shucks" funny. I legitimately feel sorry that my shitty software was breaking on them. That they provided a workaround seemed like a nice thing to me. In fact that whole message seemed pretty good to me. It's probably not entirely that employee's fault but they're still trying to empathize and he…

I used to do this too but stopped after getting negative feedback. It can come across as insincere or unserious at a time when the user is already not happy with you.

It is unprofessional. Plain and simple.
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