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Ask HN: Notion is withholding my company data, what can I do?

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Re: Ask HN: Notion is withholding my company data, what can I do?

#81

Post by MrWiffles »

A few things come to mind, all under the theme of "lighting a fire under their ass".

First, I'd contact your state attorney general's office. See this link to usa.gov for a contact database: https://www.usa.gov/state-attorney-general || https://www.naag.org/find-my-ag/

Next, contact your representative in the House and both your Senators: https://www.house.gov/representatives && https://www.senate.gov/states/statesmap.htm

Then I'd reach out to the FTC (Federal Trade Commission) with a formal complaint: https://reportfraud.ftc.gov

Filing a complaint with the Better Business Bureau might prompt some movement, even though AFAIK they have no real power over anything, but reputation damage may be threat enough to get them to play ball: https://www.bbb.org/file-a-complaint

And for "the big one": reach out to journalists in the tech industry. Posting here at HN is a good first step, but I'd tell every tech journalist who's got ears (or eyes) what's going on and see how many of them pick it up. Hopefully enough to cause some real damage (because, sadly, they've made it clear that's what it'll take to get them to stop holding you hostage).

Finally, contacting an attorney for at least an initial consult can't hurt. See americanbar.org for a list of attorneys admitted to the bar for your state: https://www.americanbar.org/directories/bar-associations/

I don't envy you, and I'll very likely never use Notion now that I've heard about this. How can anyone trust them when they literally hold their own customers hostage, ally the while lying about why they're doing it?

Re: Ask HN: Notion is withholding my company data, what can I do?

#82

Post by bingidingi »

naikrovek wrote: post #74
freedomben wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, I've written stuff very much like that before for customers that were hitting bugs. I wasn't trying to be "aw shucks" funny. I legitimately feel sorry that my shitty software was breaking on them. That they provided a workaround seemed like a nice thing to me. In fact that whole message seemed pretty good to me. It's probably not entirely that employee's fault but they're still trying to empathize and he…

it's disrespectful to respond like that, to me. infantilizing; like I'm incapable of processing a response that is genuine. "uwu we'we sowwy dis isn't wewking anymowe.. pwease don't be angwy wiff us"

gee wiz

Re: Ask HN: Notion is withholding my company data, what can I do?

#84

Post by arthurofbabylon »

When people get fed up with Notion, I urge them to check out minimal.app. (In some regions it’s in beta at minimal.app/#beta.)

Minimal has fewer features than notion, but it is faster, more reliable, simpler, and more beautiful/delightful. And it is feature packed.

I love designing and building Minimal, and thousands of people love writing in Minimal.

Re: Ask HN: Notion is withholding my company data, what can I do?

#85

Post by eli »

freedomben wrote: post #70
sebmellen wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

God, if there’s one thing I hate it’s that condescending millennial speak to cover up a serious issue. > Oof, so sorry about this... What??? If your company is broken don’t make it seem like a funny “aw shucks” blunder.

Interesting, I've written stuff very much like that before for customers that were hitting bugs. I wasn't trying to be "aw shucks" funny. I legitimately feel sorry that my shitty software was breaking on them. That they provided a workaround seemed like a nice thing to me. In fact that whole message seemed pretty good to me. It's probably not entirely that employee's fault but they're still trying to empathize and he…

I used to do this too but stopped after getting negative feedback. It can come across as insincere or unserious at a time when the user is already not happy with you.

Re: Ask HN: Notion is withholding my company data, what can I do?

#86

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

naikrovek wrote: post #74
freedomben wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, I've written stuff very much like that before for customers that were hitting bugs. I wasn't trying to be "aw shucks" funny. I legitimately feel sorry that my shitty software was breaking on them. That they provided a workaround seemed like a nice thing to me. In fact that whole message seemed pretty good to me. It's probably not entirely that employee's fault but they're still trying to empathize and he…

it's disrespectful to respond like that, to me. infantilizing; like I'm incapable of processing a response that is genuine. "uwu we'we sowwy dis isn't wewking anymowe.. pwease don't be angwy wiff us"

How the hell is "Oof, we're so sorry about this." remotely similar to "uwu we'we sowwy dis isn't wewking anymowe.. pwease don't be angwy wiff us"

I get it, some forms of communication aren't your bag. But I think it's at least reasonable to focus on a company's intent even if the verbiage isn't what you'd prefer. FWIW I'm quite older than a millennial, but I didn't find anything infantilizing about Notion's response - I'd much prefer a genuine expression of regret, which is what this FAQ appeared to be, than some nonsense corporate-speak.

Re: Ask HN: Notion is withholding my company data, what can I do?

#87

Post by naikrovek »

pm90 wrote: post #78
naikrovek wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's disrespectful to respond like that, to me. infantilizing; like I'm incapable of processing a response that is genuine. "uwu we'we sowwy dis isn't wewking anymowe.. pwease don't be angwy wiff us"

Interesting. To me, its a strong signal that the person on the other end is not an offshored, overworked drone but someone who is treated well by the company and cares enough to express empathy.

it's not empathetic, it's an attempt to disarm and minimize, and it's insulting.

Re: Ask HN: Notion is withholding my company data, what can I do?

#89

Post by Sebguer »

chirau wrote: post #29

A threat of legal action will probably go a long way. I might be wrong, but I think it is actually illegal to withhold people's data upon request, especially if you claim to offer the feature. Also false advertising. I can see how they would try to skirt around it though, they'd probably say that it is a temporary glitch but the functionality is available. That way it wouldn't be them withholding your data or false a…

This is such stunningly bad advice. Threatening legal action may get you a quicker response, if the company believes you have standing and the wherewithal to actually sue them. In most cases, however, threatening legal action is going to get you put into a queue where anything they say to you gets vetted by legal, if not just outright ignored until you actually serve them or have your own lawyer reach out.

"Go form a class action lawsuit against Notion" is just a wild thing to casually suggest as a remedy here.

Re: Ask HN: Notion is withholding my company data, what can I do?

#90

Post by pm90 »

Xunjin wrote: post #60
josephg wrote: post #23

This is truly awful, and honestly shouldn't surprise anyone given the modern cloud approach to software. I've been thinking a lot lately about ownership. If I have a book, I can interact with it the way the publisher expects (I can read it). But being a physical object, I can also do lots of other things with my book. I can burn it. I can give it to a friend. I can sell it. I can draw in it. I can rip it up and use i…

Indeed you have a great point here, as I can simplify, you do not own your data, you buy allocation of certain service, like you said about Amazon ebooks. Indeed I'm a guy who balances more between freedom instead of making it rigidly by laws, however the "Tech World" really needs "foundational directives" where all companies should abide. Like John Locke defines, as I remember, that you have a "natural right" to Lif…

The industry isn't collaborative enough to voluntarily come up with such practices so the most likely avenue seems to be through laws and regulations.
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