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Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

nytimes.com

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Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#431

Post by GuB-42 »

arminiusreturns wrote: post #291

The oligarchs have been working to detroy the middle class for a long time now (see the Norman Dodd interview or The Leipzig Connection), and education is a key piece of that work, because it truly can be a great equalizer. You will notice not just different curriculum, but entirely different methods being used at a posh place for the elite like Eton, vs a (US) public school or even most upper middle class private sc…

> The oligarchs have been working to destroy the middle class for a long time now

Why would they? The middle class is made of doctors, engineers, artists, craftsmen, chefs,... If you are rich and powerful, you want doctors to care for you when you are sick, engineers to design your private jet, artists to entertain you, craftsmen to build your mansion, chefs to prepare you the best meals,... Mindless slaves had some value in the pre-industrial times, but now, we have machines that do the work of thousands of slaves, cheaper and better. The rich want people to serve them, sure, but they want them smart and productive. And people don't become smart and productive when they are struggling with life.

Just look at the rich and powerful during the pandemic, they got hit like the rest of us. Better treatment, and they quarantined in paradise islands, but they still died and had to do all the social distancing stuff. And guess who saved their ass, yep, middle class, and they know it, they are not stupid.

There is no class war, no conspiracy. In fact, if there is war, it is between the member of each class. It is a tragedy of the commons situation, where the common here is the workforce.

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#432

Post by sudosysgen »

randdusing wrote: post #341
sc68cal wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget that Argentina's economy was the brainchild of the right wing in the United States, and specifically the Chicago School of economics. They overthrew a democractically elected government and installed a military dictatorship, in order to push their preferred economy

Did you mean Chile? Chile is doing well compared to other Latin American countries.

Chile was doing so well in their capitalist constitution that communists just had an unprecentended jump in support.

If you're going to make context less comparisons, Cuba is one of the most developped countries in Latin America.

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#433

Post by gumby »

mnouquet wrote: post #404
gumby wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe has enormous, deep pools of capital. The culture though is to fear loss rather than fear loss of upside. Capital is deployed differently in the US and China.

What does China has to do with the actual conversation ?

Merely that the US is not the only one with the eagerness to deploy capital at greater risk. Nothing more than that!

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#434

Post by tablespoon »

bernulli wrote: post #364
water8 wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its better to be born in the 95th percentile in intelligence vs the 95th percentile in wealth in terms of where you will actually end up.

Not that I’m a fan, but Malcolm Gladwell wrote a whole book (Outliers) about how this is not true.

> Not that I’m a fan, but Malcolm Gladwell wrote a whole book (Outliers) about how this is not true.

IIRC, that book cited a study by someone who strongly believed that IQ was a strong predictor of great success...and his own study found that wasn't true. IIRC, he followed a bunch of very high IQ kids from childhood to adulthood, and the most successful of them only achieved middling success.

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#435

Post by economusty »

Applejinx wrote: post #321

A lot of people here need to talk to some entrepreneurs. It doesn't matter how good, or how well funded, the school system is: if the family is poor, you're not going to be able to float rent on the storefront you need, or purchase initial inventory of whatever you're making, much less soak up a few false starts, much less take out a bank loan to do any of these things. Period. This does not in ANY WAY mean there sho…

That's all true.

The problem is two fold: poor AND stupid people can't start businesses. Funding the schools solves half the problem.

Smart and poor people can start businesses they just need to rely on partners for funding.

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#437

Post by refurb »

techrat wrote: post #96
refurb wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better than the current “sunk cost mentality” of public schools where poor schools have more money thrown at them until someone finally realizes its not a money issue. It’s literally the opposite of efficient use of funds. You want to shift more money to the better run schools not the worst run schools.

Decades of Republican ratfucking the education system isn't a reason to add more overhead to a starved system by privatizing it. > Better than... We know what deregulation does. Texas' energy issues is a great example. People forget that regulations don't just magically exist to inconvenience the glorious free market... Regulations are written in blood.

Ahh yes, the hordes of San Francisco Republicans… oh wait, the city hasn’t had a Republican since the 70’s.

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#438

Post by foolinaround »

Invictus0 wrote: post #425
foolinaround wrote: post #353

one root cause for poor education that does not seem to be discussed in the thread is the absence of fathers - or even the attention spent by parents of the child. If this is factored out, one could see more uniform outcomes.

My girlfriend's father died when she was 4 and her mother was an alcoholic for many years, she still turned out great and got herself into college at 17. On the other hand, I know many people with tiger or helicopter parents who lack even the most basic life skills, have difficulty socializing, don't know their physical limits, or have strong entitlement complexes. Attention to child is a poor metric for quality of p…

thats great for you both, but its' one person's data point, that does not take away from the overall statement.

What I meant by "attention to child" is that children generally push at boundaries, and there needs to be mature people in their life who keep watch and bring them back in.

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#439

Post by forbiddenvoid »

economusty wrote: post #435
Applejinx wrote: post #321

A lot of people here need to talk to some entrepreneurs. It doesn't matter how good, or how well funded, the school system is: if the family is poor, you're not going to be able to float rent on the storefront you need, or purchase initial inventory of whatever you're making, much less soak up a few false starts, much less take out a bank loan to do any of these things. Period. This does not in ANY WAY mean there sho…

That's all true. The problem is two fold: poor AND stupid people can't start businesses. Funding the schools solves half the problem. Smart and poor people can start businesses they just need to rely on partners for funding.

It's more sinister than that. It's not only poor people who can't start businesses. Or we need to change our definition of poor. Who among the middle class could safely start a new business without putting their livelihood at risk? It's not a large number.

Rich people can not only start businesses, they can start many businesses. They can beat the statistics of business start up failure because there is little risk for them when a business fails.

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#440

Post by alpha_squared »

monkeydreams wrote: post #428
notJim wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it right to focus so much on entrepreneurship? Of course at the top, it matters a lot, but isn't a lot of mobility also driven by more average careers?

> Of course at the top, it matters a lot, but isn't a lot of mobility also driven by more average careers? Given wage stagnation across much of the Western world, largely driven by "liberal" economic and monetary policy, there is a lot of downward pressure on the benefits of "average" (Non FAANG) careers.

> largely driven by "liberal" economic and monetary policy

Mind expanding a little more on that?

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