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A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

economist.com

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Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#781

Post by justicezyx »

munk-a wrote: post #739
justicezyx wrote: post #680

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That is hard to say. Why? There are simply more disabled people than trans people and they are getting far less attention, right? How is that hard to say?

I think society has made good efforts to be more accessible to people with disabilities. I'm pretty sure all of the traffic lights in America beep when the walk signal is on - that exists to assist blind individuals even in communities without blind individuals - in addition there are a lot more buildings with wheelchair ramps than there are with unisex bathrooms.

>unisex bathrooms

There are closed lavatory literally in any restroom, in terms of accessibility, that's universally accessible to trans people.

In this sense, trans people are treated infinitely better than disabled people.

I still cannot understand the idea that transpeople are not considered with some kind of mental or bodily disease...

I mean depression is considered a mental disease. Because one just cannot feel happy.

So if someone feels not the same as the body reflects, why not that considered a disease and treated accordingly?

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#782

Post by andyxor »

drenvuk wrote: post #268

Can someone please tell me how important this topic based on the amount of news time and eyeballs it attracts relative to the number of people that it affects? The numbers I can find for US citizens is: 0.6% or 1,988,696 out 331,449,281 of people total for the entirety of the US in 2021. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_demographics_of_the_Unite... In the UK where the featured article took place the latest poll I…

I suggest that you read the article, here is archived version https://archive.is/2021.06.05-230906/https://www.economist.c...

But to answer your question “why is this important” - the extreme minority of transgender people and the army of their supporters and activists in their quest for recognizing trans rights step on and disregard women rights and aggressively “cancel” anyone who dares to disagree with gender ideology, now that affects all of us, if you care about free speech.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#783

Post by Smithalicious »

fallat wrote: post #715
jfengel wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Olympics has been dealing with the question of womanhood for a very long time. For a while they were literally stripping and groping female athletes. Later they did chromosome testing, until they discovered intersex individuals who confound that theory. Even their current testosterone-levels theory is imperfect, since some people have obviously female bodies but inordinately high testosterone levels. So they seem…

I've basically had a thought recently about this. The Olympics will eventually become a contest of the best humans, regardless of sex / gender. This is already how it is more or less today: people born with the right body types, into the right families, etc, will make it to the top. Thank for you attending my TED talk.

This is the most elegant solution, but it's also functionally equivalent to "women can't do high level sports anymore"

I feel like women's sports is extremely cursed - a sporting competition with a handicap, except the handicap is not specified in the rules but is instead a randomly distributed quirk of biology, meaning that people have to judge who does or does not have it, except that the handicap is also an integral part of a person's identity...

(no I don't mean to say being female is a disability, the context is sports)

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#784

Post by nahnahno »

angus-prune wrote: post #767
bradleyjg wrote: post #666

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What, if any, are the permanent consequences of being on puberty blockers from, say, 13-18? I’d guess they’d be significant but that’s just a guess.

All the research I’ve seen shows no significant consequences to taking puberty blockers. Puberty proceeds as normal once the puberty blockers have been stopped. Puberty has quite a wide range of onset ages and this is not taking the range that far beyond the historical range.

What research have you done? Because it doesn't take long to find evidence that they have a list of side effects including some not-so-innocuous ones, and the admission that research is lacking:

Possible long-term side effects of puberty blockers Lower bone density. To protect against this, we work to make sure every patient gets enough exercise, calcium and vitamin D, which can help keep bones healthy and strong. We also closely monitor patients’ bone density. Delayed growth plate closure, leading to slightly taller adult height. Less development of genital tissue, which may limit options for gender affirming surgery (bottom surgery) later in life. Other possible long-term side effects that are not yet known.

https://www.stlouischildrens.org/conditions-treatments/trans...

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#785

Post by pseudalopex »

bradleyjg wrote: post #666
fao_ wrote: post #641

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also important noting, semi-related to your post, that nobody is pushing for trans-surgeries for teenagers -- they are pushing for puberty blockers . What this means is that puberty is medically halted until the teenager is a legal age, when they will be able to decide which puberty they want. This avoids a lot of dysphoria-provoking secondary sexual characteristics from progressing, and also avoids accidentally…

What, if any, are the permanent consequences of being on puberty blockers from, say, 13-18? I’d guess they’d be significant but that’s just a guess.

Decreased bone density is a concern. This is monitored. It can be mitigated with supplements and exercise. And it isn't known if it's permanent or only for the duration of treatment as far as I know.

AMAB patients have less penile tissue for vaginoplasty. They have other options though. I don't think anyone has studied mature penile size in AMAB patients who decided to go through male puberty. Few do.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#786

Post by beckman466 »

dang wrote: post #255
adventured wrote: post #150

The same has occurred in regards to race. For decades the ideological left preached, quite aggressively and consistently, that we must move to a post racial society, that race should not matter. This was the clear majority belief on the left as recently as the beginning of Obama's first term. My entire childhood was filled with that preached gospel: a person's character is what matters, do not pay attention to their…

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27608388 .

> We detached this subthread

What does that mean?

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#787

Post by seaorg »

Any form of dogma, no matter which side of the isle it comes from, is poison. Even things that seem silly like pronouns can be the seed from which serious problems arise. It’s because dogma is the absence of rational thought, and in that absence irrational beasts can grow very large.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#788

Post by metalliqaz »

arminiusreturns wrote: post #239
metalliqaz wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Enforced group-think is going to be the death of these universities." How?

Mostly because it is a rejection of first principles thinking, which is a key tool in the toolbelt of critical thinking, supposedly part of any university's mandate.

this doesn't explain how the universities will "die"

all the other games in town are doing the same thing, and if a new one popped up to replace it, who would they get to run it?

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#789

Post by jfengel »

fallat wrote: post #715
jfengel wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Olympics has been dealing with the question of womanhood for a very long time. For a while they were literally stripping and groping female athletes. Later they did chromosome testing, until they discovered intersex individuals who confound that theory. Even their current testosterone-levels theory is imperfect, since some people have obviously female bodies but inordinately high testosterone levels. So they seem…

I've basically had a thought recently about this. The Olympics will eventually become a contest of the best humans, regardless of sex / gender. This is already how it is more or less today: people born with the right body types, into the right families, etc, will make it to the top. Thank for you attending my TED talk.

They're already in an arms race about performance enhancing drugs. And even without those, there are artificial limitations like age in women's gymnastics, because of the damage it does. Football players are grappling with decades of head injuries.

If you want to know the very best a human can do, you will destroy them. It's just not a question we can safely know the answer to.

So it's never really going to be fair, and we need to ask a different question. Exactly what that question is remains to be seen.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#790

Post by pseudalopex »

honkdaddy wrote: post #745
makeworld wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But a LOT of teenagers, particularly girls, go through a period of gender dysphoria when they hit puberty. What little research exists on the topic says that most of those girls will grow out of their gender dysphoria, and well-meaning attempts at gender reassignment surgery for them will backfire. Could you link to this research? This is a fraught topic that includes fraudulent studies and claims like this mean li…

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6095578/ I don't think this study is perfect by any means, especially as the data is coming from parents of said teenage girls, but it's a place to start.

That study might be the most flawed I've ever seen. It relied on parents' perceptions like you said. And the author selected for parents who refused to accept their children coming out as trans. Among other problems.[1]

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnc_KvWkiHw&t=3324s

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